Andrew Kenneth Fretwell – 248

[00:00:00] Tony Winyard: Can you feel that? There’s energy in the air. An ancient power ready to be harnessed. I’m Tony Winyard and in this electrifying episode of the Art of Living Proactively podcast, we’ll be unlocking the secrets of Qigong, China’s time tested system for tapping into your vital life force.

My guest today, Andrew Kenneth Fretwell, an expert guide to energizing and enlightening practices of Qigong and Tai Chi. Andrew will reveal how techniques like bone breathing and organ strengthening meditations can sharpen your mind, strengthen your body and awaken your spirit. We will discover the Taoist path to balance, emotional mastery and realising your potential by harnessing Jing, your essential energy..

From movement to mindfulness, it promises to be an inspirational and informative show. So relax, hit subscribe and join me on this journey to the proactive side of life. When you’ve listened, please share your impressions in YouTube comments. For now, let’s begin unlocking the power within.

[00:01:10] Introduction and Guest Welcome

[00:01:10] Tony Winyard: Welcome to another edition of The Art of Living Proactively. My guest today, Andrew Kenneth Fretwell. How are you doing, Andrew? I’m doing amazing. And we’re in a pretty amazing place today, aren’t we?

[00:01:24] Living in Ubud, Bali

[00:01:24] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Yes, I live in

[00:01:25] Tony Winyard: Ubud Bali. And, we were speaking before the recording started, but Indonesia is a place I lived in for seven years, so I know well, and I know how beautiful Bali is.

It’s quite

[00:01:39] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: magical. It’s one of the reasons I moved here. The energy of nature here is so powerful. Especially where I live, in the woods, which is more up in the mountains. Breeze and,

[00:01:58] Tony Winyard: a lot more green. In the popular places, which is… Absolutely.

[00:02:05] The Power of Qigong

[00:02:05] Tony Winyard: it’s something I tell all my students.

[00:02:12] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: I’ve been teaching Qigong for many years, and I tell my students, if I’d known this when I was young, I would have been much more proactive. I think one of the things that we have to understand is that when we’re young, especially in our 20s and 30s, we have a lot of what the Daoists call Jing, which is equivalent to like adrenal energy, if you like.

[00:02:31] The Importance of Conserving Energy

[00:02:31] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: And what I would have liked a mentor to tell me all those years ago is, be careful with your Jing, it’s very precious. And if you want to live a really healthy life, you need to conserve it. So that would be my analogy for anyone, is to learn how to conserve your dream, especially when you’re young. Because

[00:02:53] Tony Winyard: it will pay dividends for you, when you’re older.

[00:02:58] Sexual Energy and Life Force

[00:02:58] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: if you’re a man, you have to, make sure you don’t ejaculate too much. That’s really important. And to transform that energy into life force, men and women are a little bit different, okay? So men lose most of their energy through ejaculation. That’s how we lose our life force, right? And women lose it through their period and through giving birth.

Sexually, women are much more, we could say, from the Taoist point of view, which is my tradition, they’re much more, at a sexual level, they’re much more, they don’t waste energy when they have sex. one of the things that I teach is, I teach men how to have orgasm without ejaculation. And that’s a really important factor.

The Chinese master this.

and The Empress used to have more than one wife.

[00:03:46] Tony Winyard: So you, let’s, to, for explanation for listeners who maybe aren’t aware. an instructor for Qigong and also for Tai Chi I believe as well, aren’t you?

[00:03:56] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: yes. So basically any of the Chinese arts, the Taoist arts. So

[00:04:01] Understanding Qigong and Tai Chi

[00:04:01] Tony Winyard: some people probably aren’t really so familiar with, what is Qigong?

What is Tai Chi? can you explain? sure.

[00:04:09] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: So Qigong is not like exercise. If you watch anyone doing Qigong on the park, Very graceful movements. And they are. They’re very graceful, very beautiful. And basically, Qigong is older than Tai Chi. And there are literally thousands of different forms.

[00:04:27] The Benefits of Qigong

[00:04:27] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: And the whole purpose of Qigong, not only is it for health and vitality, but it’s for your internal, to make your internal energy a mirror of nature. This is the main key with Qigong. You have to make your internal, because basically the Taoists say, That nature is connected to the Tao, is connected to the source.

There’s no separation. But us human beings, because we have a mind, and because we can interpret life, and make stories up about neutral experiences of life, then what we do is we basically change our energy. We restrict our energy. we get old quicker than we should do. And things like this, right?

the Taoist arts are really directed at really Developing yourself spiritually. So even though the health benefits are enormous, the real reason is to develop your consciousness, what the Daoists call your energy body or your soul, and to make it more real in your life. That’s the real purpose.

[00:05:29] The Challenges of Learning Tai Chi

[00:05:29] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: And then Tai Chi is much more difficult to learn because it’s very structured and it’s very much about martial arts.

It’s a fighting form actually. But Tai Chi is, it takes a lot of discipline and it takes many years to really be good in Tai Chi. Whereas Qigong, I teach this very simple form, and people can learn it in 2 3 hour sessions, and it’s very powerful as well, so that’s one of the reasons I teach something that’s more simple.

[00:05:57] Tony Winyard: Qigong is more about breathing and the breath work?

[00:06:00] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: no. Ok. Qigong is about moving your body. Okay. In alignment with nature. So it looks very similar to Tai Chi, it’s just that it’s not so structured and it’s easier to learn.

Okay. sometimes they say Qigong is the mother of Tai Chi.

[00:06:16] The Connection Between Qigong and Nature

[00:06:16] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Basically, these Taoist monks and, these adepts, they looked at the way birds moved, and animals moved, and they said, oh, if we start to move like that, maybe we’ll be more connected to nature. And so the Taoists were responsible for things like acupuncture, herbalism Tai Chi, Feng Shui, an incredible rich culture.

Okay.

[00:06:40] Personal Experience with Tai Chi

[00:06:40] Tony Winyard: In the early 90s I lived in Hong Kong and I remember one night I was coming back from a club and it was about 5, 5. 30, 6 o’clock in the morning and it was dawn and I was walking through a park with a friend and I saw hundreds of old people. All moving really slowly. And I’d never come across Tai Chi before.

I was in my, I think I was in my mid twenties or something and it was like something outta some like horror film. I thought, what the hell is going on? It was hundreds of old people moving really slowly and I didn’t know what they were doing. But obviously now I know it was Tai Chi, but it was an amazing site.

Yeah.

[00:07:22] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: and I was in China in 2019

masters in Beijing and many of them in their health really

see. True. Those cultivating your energy is

[00:07:37] Tony Winyard: something we should all learn as kids.

[00:07:39] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: so does this

[00:07:40] The Connection to Dao De Ching

[00:07:40] Tony Winyard: relate back to the Tao de Ching and Lao Tzu and so on, or no? Yes it does.

[00:07:44] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Exactly. Exactly. The Tao de ching is the pre- eminent, all the scholars in China agree that the Dao route that says that right at the beginning, the Dao that can be spoken is not the Dao know. So it’s a very mystical Have you read that book?

Have you

[00:08:02] Tony Winyard: read or, yeah. I’ve, I read, , Dr. Wayne Dyer did a book,about the Tao, which I found absolutely fascinating. And I remember when I was reading it and I was on a tube in London and I went five stops past where I was supposed to get off ’cause I was so engrossed in the book and I realized, oh, I was supposed to get off.

I stops. Yeah, it’s an amazing book.

[00:08:24] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: It’s just full of wisdom that we need now. The leader is not known by his, followers because there’s so much good in the land.

let’s go back

[00:08:38] Tony Winyard: then.

[00:08:38] Personal Journey into Qigong and Tai Chi

[00:08:38] Tony Winyard: What was it that first got you into all this? How did you come across this in the first place? Ah, that’s a great

[00:08:45] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: question. when I was

[00:08:47] Tony Winyard: 21

[00:08:48] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: experiencing, I had basically a friend, a yoga teacher. She wanted me to go up to London to support her because she had to give a talk at this ashram. I went, not knowing what I was letting myself in for. It was this Indian ashram, and like you when you saw those people in the park, I walk into this place and there’s an incense and…

I’m like, what the hell, where am I, you know? Anyway, I was there for my friend, so I was just being a friendly person, you know. So I sat down on the floor. The teacher, that she, wasn’t there. It was his ashram, but he was in India. And as soon as I sat down, I had this, it felt like I

was full of love. You know, full of this love that was just It’s really hard to describe. Just And I had it for three days and three nights. It was just sort of classic awakening, you know. And I’ll be walking around the street, you know, loving everyone, loving the insects, loving the grass, loving my enemies.

I just had so much love, And I was like, oh my god. And then I spent the next ten years trying to recreate that. So I was serving this particular teacher. I actually ran an ashram. But what happened for me was a very interesting journey. What happened was that I suddenly had this split. Because I was a professional musician at the time, you have to remember.

So I had this split between my worldly life and my spiritual life. When I was at the ashram and I was meditating and chanting, I felt great. But when I went into my life, I couldn’t. And eventually, after about 10 years, this, maybe a little bit longer, 12 years,it manifested as a physical problem. I was going to India regularly to see my teacher, and I got amoebae dyssentry.

Basically, I was in pain, and it was horrible.

Anyway, I was trying everything to get rid of it. Western medicine, chiropractor, Chinese herbs. I tried everything. Everything. Nothing would get rid of it. It was driving me nuts. And my girlfriend at the time, we were living in London, she said, hey, why don’t you try a microbiotic consultation? so there’s this place in London, you might remember it, I don’t know if you’re old street, but it’s called the Community Health Foundation.

I went there, and the owner of the, the consultant looked at me, and he knew I had this problem, and He says, here we are the most evolved species on the planet and we’re blaming all these single celled organisms for all our problems. And I’ll never forget that statement. It just blew me away. I was like, yeah, of course.

And he looked at me and he said, look, you just make your system stronger, and you’ll easily get rid of the amoebas and everything will be fine. And he was dead right.

[00:11:24] The Impact of Diet on Health

[00:11:24] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: And up to then I hadn’t worked on my diet or anything. So, microbiosis really comes from China. It’s more, originally Japan, but the influence is China.

So I just changed my diet. And within three months, not only did I heal my amoebas, but my whole outlook on life changed. I went on, and so I decided then, to move away from the immune system and study my colitis. And I took a training course. On that training course was a friend of mine, and he introduced me to someone called Mantak Chia.

He’s very proficient in those things.

And I became his student, basically. I actually became a senior student in his organisation I lived in. And when I was there, people invited me to come and teach in different places. So that’s how I started, basically. It’s a very interesting journey, you know. And now I can honestly say that since that experience of that opening, now I can ground that experience.

That experience is still pretty constant for me these days. I really feel my heart very open, but that I’m very grounded as well. And that’s what I want to teach people, because I see people on the spiritual path, or any sort of exercise path, oftentimes they go up, and they go down, and up. So I’m trying to teach people how to make it consistent.

Mission. It’s a long story, but I hope it puts across the journey. So

[00:12:49] Teaching Qigong and Tai Chi

[00:12:49] Tony Winyard: the people you’re working with in Bali, is that locals? Is it expats? Is it online? Or

[00:12:56] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: how is it? Most of my training, because of COVID, I moved online. I was travelling a lot before COVID. And

actually it was a very good thing for me because I could spend more time with people. So since then I’ve been mentoring international students all over the world. I teach a little bit, but not too much. Every month for a couple of sessions, because I haven’t really put energy into it yet, but I’m planning to do more.

And so from what you said before, is it that you would

[00:13:31] Tony Winyard: start people off with Qigong and then maybe move them into Tai Chi? No, I start

[00:13:37] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: them with Qigong and then we move into the Taoist internal alchemy, which is all about, it’s a meditation practice but it’s not a head centred meditation.

[00:13:48] The Importance of Emotional Balance

[00:13:48] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: It’s not about stilling the mind. It’s about getting the body really healthy. for example, in, in Daoism, we say that the mind is the body mind.

So when I first met Mantak Chia, he looked at me, and he didn’t give me any spiritual advice. He just said, strengthen your lungs, Andrew. That’s all he said to me, strengthen your lungs. So it’s a very unique way of looking at life. And it’s very proactive, actually. So if you take care of the body, your spiritual life actually takes care of itself

that’s what I learned. And so

[00:14:19] Tony Winyard: how did you go about strengthening your lungs through DAO

[00:14:24] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: practice? Okay. Dao practice through, for example, smiling at them, releasing toxins out of them. There’s a very famous Taoist thing called the

smile in the soul, and you open up the, to bring in these, these qualities that the lungs can actually embody, which is strength. The lungs have a

connection

[00:14:45] Tony Winyard: to inner strength,

[00:14:47] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: and every, every organ has a spiritual quality to. for example, the kidneys

[00:14:51] Tony Winyard: give you wisdom.

[00:14:52] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: But also, those organs store a lot of what we consider, especially these days, after everyone’s so expressive on social media, but those organs also contain what we call, distortions of those virtues. So the liver can get very angry and frustrated, the lungs can get sad and depressed, and so it’s wonderful for people once they start to see that their emotions are directly connected to their organ systems.

And it’s so powerful. It makes such a difference. I have so many people coming to me who have done all these meditation practices, but they never touch their organs. And once they do their organs, they see, Oh my God, I bypassed all this stuff, I bypassed all this anger, I bypassed my sexuality, because I wanted to have this spiritual awakening.

I mean, I’m 66 now, but…

So, would this… I…

[00:15:44] Tony Winyard: My intuition, and this is probably wrong, it’s saying that I’m, it may be, this is going to be more difficult for younger people than older people or how, what is your experience?

[00:15:55] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: my students, I’m lucky I have a whole range of students, I have young students and veterans as well, I think your intuition’s right, I think most young people, their adrenal energy, their kidney energy, their sexual energy, it’s like, they’re not thinking about spirituality, they’re not thinking proactively, they’re not thinking about that.

So I think your intuition is right about that. It’s just that I’ve been around a long time and people know about me and so I tend to attract all sorts of people. One of my students is very young. And does

it

[00:16:27] Tony Winyard: make any difference, obviously, you said you’ve transitioned to working online whereas before you were working face to face. Is it, is there anything, if you were learning this online, is there anything that you would miss by not being, interacting with the teacher? It’s

[00:16:47] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Because what I noticed when I was teaching, I’d be teaching weekends with people. Of course they have that interaction with me, but they don’t have that ongoing reaction with me. So I’m mentoring people, I’m working with people constantly. One training that I do we meet every week, you know, so people are meeting for six months.

Really

helpful for people to have someone to meet with every week.

[00:17:13] Tony Winyard: can you think of any sort of examples, case studies or whatever, where someone’s come to you, they know nothing about Qigong, and they’ve… Experience some things which they just weren’t expecting. Oh yeah,

[00:17:26] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: that’s just, if you look on my website, you can see all the beginnings.

It’s a form, wuji gong, it’s a living form, it’s very special. When people practice that, they feel energy, and they feel their hearts starting to open. And so they start to have these experiences, spiritual experiences. I’m just doing this for, so if you go on my website, there’s so many stories written.

[00:17:51] Tony Winyard: And is it something that you would just do, for people who are learning? Is it something you would do once a week, or would you have a session with you, say, and then practice it on a daily basis? How would

[00:18:02] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: people start this?

[00:18:11] Tony Winyard: ith wuji gong they can either learn with me in person.. and they have it for life W

And so do you teach people Tai Chi as well? I

[00:18:16] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: haven’t for a long time. Okay. I haven’t for a long time. The last time I taught Tai Chi was in this form, this Fuji Gong form. I just think that people don’t have the time, they’re so busy. They want something really simple, they want to learn it fast and they want to get results.

So,So, Tai Chi, you need a good three years. So I’m more interested in trying to really help people make a breakthrough in their life. What I’ve done is I’ve tested, and this

Wuji Gong that I teach is

there’s

[00:18:55] Tony Winyard: lots of places around, virtually anywhere in the world where you go and there’s people teaching Tai Chi. So if someone just goes and starts learning Tai Chi, but they haven’t learned Qi Gong first, what is it that they’ll be missing?

[00:19:12] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: I don’t think they’ll be missing anything, because they don’t know, right? And and sure, just slowing their body down and learning that it’s going to have benefits. It’s not going to not. It is, it’s just that it’s much slower in my experience than this. It’s actually called Tai Chi for Enlightenment.

So the story behind this form is that the original founder of Tai Chi, his name is Zhang Sanfeng still this semi legendary figure about a thousand years ago, but he’s accredited with teaching the original Tai Chi form.

And, as far as we know, he also taught a

And,

[00:19:54] Tony Winyard: if I remember rightly, isn’t there something, women have more difficulty, something about their hormonal system with this?

[00:20:00] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Uh, uh, generally, I would say, in life, most,

I would say most,

probably you don’t get women having hormonal issues.

[00:20:18] The Role of Women in Qigong and Tai Chi

[00:20:18] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Most of the women that I’ve dealt with, so many of them have hormonal issues, it’s real.

And it’s accepted as normal now, to have periods. Or to have endometriosis, or to have, like, when you have your period to be really super tired, or, all of those things are not natural. And you would go to a Chinese doctor and they would give you herbs that can address it. But this is a very deep issue.

I have a programme that addresses it. It’s about women not feeling safe in the world, actually. The truth that we live in a world where women, for thousands of years, they’ve been abused by

the patriarchy in their cells, of not feeling safe. And then they have to live in this world, and so unconsciously they make this decision. Oh yeah, I don’t really feel safe here, but I’m gonna do it anyway. And that’s what causes, that’s the root of the hormonal issue. So I have this program on my website, it’s called, Hormonal Balance for Women, or Bone Breathing.

And all the women that go through that program, everyone is there. Heals their period pain, all their emotions. Heals, uh, uh, osteoporosis. it’s unbelievable, this program. And it’s not about taking herbs, it’s not about, hormone replacement therapy. They don’t have to take anything, it’s all within themselves. They have to learn a very simple massage of the breasts, and activate the hormone glands, and they have to learn and start to do that.

I’m very proud of that program. And

how

[00:21:58] Tony Winyard: long does that program

[00:21:59] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: last? It’s a, it’s a four, three hour, four, three, no, three, three hour training.

[00:22:15] Tony Winyard: And I guess we should mention Telegram as in WhatsApp rather than like Telegrams.

[00:22:22] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Yeah, Telegram,the group.

[00:22:24] Tony Winyard: Yeah.

[00:22:25] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Telegram chat. yeah. Similar to WhatsApp, but I like Telegram because I can put videos there, I can put articles. It’s really quite good for teaching this.

yeah.

[00:22:36] Tony Winyard: have you got many people who have been working with you for a long time?

[00:22:40] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Yes, most of my students. I have this reputation, I mean, this reputation, I mean, people come to me through word of mouth. And

then when they come, they usually stay for a long time. But many of them become teachers. Right. I’m still I’m still mentoring them and helping them.

[00:23:00] Tony Winyard: And so if someone wanted to become a teacher, how long would that take?

[00:23:05] The Process of Becoming a Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher

[00:23:05] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: There’s a six month program that I have on my website. It’s called Alchemy School.

It’s, I say six months, you’re not busy for that whole six months. You do meet with me once a week for the six weeks and we do all the other… And then there’s also intensive weekend trainings where I’m teaching the formulas. The formulas of sexual alchemy. So

that is a progressive training that people go through. But they can also do the Wu Ji Gong teaching training. That’s easier. There’s not so much commitment. Or online exam

Or online exam There’s many options for

[00:23:56] Tony Winyard: people to become teachers. Yeah, with my

[00:24:03] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: school. so the wuji gong is like easier to qualify for because it’s simple to teach and you still have to connect to it, So there are two levels, yeah, there’s the wuji gong and then most of the people that do the wuji gong teacher training, they then come into my deeper system.

[00:24:24] Tony Winyard: And obviously by learning to teach that, they’re also going to develop so much within themselves, just in that whole process. They have to.

[00:24:33] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: In my school, they certify themselves. And that’s wonderful.

[00:24:43] Tony Winyard: in that training, would they be learning aspects of, breathing and nutrition and so on, and maybe stress management, or what, would they be covering

[00:24:52] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: things along those lines? not so much nutrition. Uh, you know, diet sorts itself out when you heal yourself.

[00:24:58] The Importance of Emotional Health in Qigong and Tai Chi

[00:24:58] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Organs. It’s simple as that.

Okay. But usually an imbalance in eating is related to the organ systems not being, so I don’t really teach too much something else. We are also different in that respect, No, mostly it’s about where

that is rising. Okay. So the basic teaching here, and this is the big difference between what pushes and the Western psychological approach only focuses on,

focuses on what’s creating thoughts and feelings. So if we get our energy really clear and healthy, our thoughts and feelings naturally take care of themselves. And naturally become more loving. But you have to dig down, because there’s so much childhood wounding, ancestral wounding, stored in our organs.

So part of the training with me is first of all, let’s clear out those wounds. And then amazing things happen, you know, we start to feel more energy, sleep better, all sorts of things. A proven system.

[00:26:09] Tony Winyard: Oh, and on that, isn’t there? my understanding is in China there was a period, I think it was sometime in the 20th century where some of this was suppressed, but now it seems to be resurgent. is that correct? Yeah,

[00:26:21] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: that’s exactly right. So basically what happened during the cultural revolution, they took everything that was spiritual outta the medicine, outta traditional.

So it was no longer classical because they removed all of the spiritual reference. So I called TC. Traditional Chinese medicine. And basically, all of the real masters, they all fled to Taiwan and other places like Hong Kong. Because they were being killed, basically. Because they were, they had special powers. they could see things.

One of them, I remember very specifically, he predicted mass incarceration in the prison. And he actually went into a very deep meditation. and the guards thought he was dead dead and they thrown out stories

[00:27:13] Tony Winyard: like that. Wow. but now it is really resurgent in China though, isn’t it?

[00:27:17] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: yes and no. And it’s, but listen, China is a little bit like Japan.

It’s very split. Okay? So there’s all these big cities and this neon and and those people in those cities, they have no idea of the Taoist culture. And how do I know that? Because I’ve spoken to some monks when they go to the city and they’re dressed in the typical Taoist wear. The young Chinese, or even the older Chinese, will look at them and say, Oh, which country do you come from?

You must be somewhere from very strange. And they realise it’s their culture, there’s definitely a split in China. the scientific, and the western values, and then there’s tradition. And there’s still a lot of very beautiful, spiritual places.

[00:28:07] Tony Winyard: Are there

Are there any myths around Qi Gong you would like to dispel? The things that people think, which is simply incorrect.

[00:28:21] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: I mean maybe this, Mantak Chia is really famous for sexual energy cultivation. His first book was called Cultivating Male Sexual Energy. And I would say that maybe one of the myths is that if you, that you can do that without spiritually developing, and I say you can’t, because actually many men, they did that approach.

And they got into all sorts of trouble because they weren’t emotionally mature enough to deal with the increase of energy that practice brings. So now, for example, I never teach men the sexual practice until I’ve done it. So that would

be one myth,

In fact, to be emotional, to be multi orgasmic, you have to really have opened your heart. Because you can’t just do it through physical.

[00:29:23] Tony Winyard: I imagine, look, let me go back and change. You know the book Meditations by Marcus Aurelius? Yes. Now I remember I was reading this with a few other people and then it became apparent that we were reading different translations and it made a massive difference depending on which translation we were reading and we weren’t necessarily reading the same thing.

So is the same thing, true for Dao De Qing as well?

which would you recommend?

[00:29:53] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: I think the one by Clary is really good, Thomas Clary. Okay.

[00:30:01] Tony Winyard: And, and let’s stay with books. is there a book that’s really moved you at any point in your life?

[00:30:06] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Yeah, I, and it’s Nourishing Destiny, that’s the inner tradition of Chinese people. here is a master, he’s a western master.

Because he meets Chinese, because he can understand it, he’s written this amazing book about constitutional medicine. It’s a big book. okay. Yeah. But that book is…

Yeah, it’s my favourite book. It’s very easy to read actually. Um,website, my

[00:30:42] Tony Winyard: own website is called woojee.

[00:30:54] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: com

Website at the bottom is my Facebook. The book called Emotional Alchemy I can get on Amazon is Hidden Within Painful People. And

[00:31:07] Tony Winyard: who is the

[00:31:08] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: book aimed at?

This is what the mind does. The rational mind cannot understand the irrational. You have to build your earth strong enough to build a center where you can hold your

mind, your thoughts, and also hold your feelings. That takes size. So my book teaches you how to do that. It also teaches you how to… Go into very painful feelings and draw the energy that’s trapped and reclaim them. That’s the one area that all the humanity is very immature. We’re very advanced scientifically.

We’re very advanced mentally, intellectually, with emotionally we’re very bad. This

[00:32:06] The Cultural Differences in Emotion Perception

[00:32:06] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: is all to do with emotional body. People just don’t like how they feel, so they project that out.

[00:32:13] Tony Winyard: What would you say about the way people think of emotion in the West compared to the east??

[00:32:21] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: Oh, that’s a great question. I mean,that’s a fascinating question. in the West, we, we take everything personally, right?

But in the East, they, they, they don’t. they don’t. They suppress their personal feelings, and they try and make the outer world, the family, the job, it’s terrible. They completely suppress their feelings. And they make the group or the family, more important than their personal feelings.

So it’s very different. very different.

They both

[00:32:48] Tony Winyard: we’re about to finish Andrew. So have you got, that’s okay. Have you got a quote that resonates with you for any reason? Oh yeah.

[00:32:55] Andrew Kenneth Fretwell: This is my favorite Heaven, no, heaven and Earth code words in, earth is everything we can see.

Anything that has, and then heaven for the Taoists, the invisible, so like our soul. And the scientists will tell you, yeah, yeah, it’s all happening here, but we feel it in our bodies, right? So what this means is that when we embrace our earthly life, when we accept all of our, all of the bad things, the things that we miss, we accept that all of these experiences in our life, that’s when heaven will come.

And do you know who it was that said that? Well,

[00:34:19] Conclusion and Farewell

[00:34:19] Tony Winyard: Andrew, it’s been fascinating. It’s been very educational and yeah, fascinating. so thank you. Yeah, thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience and everything. It’s been, really, yeah, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

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