Dan Roberts – 245

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[00:00:00] Tony Winyard: I’m thrilled to share an adventurous conversation with Dan Roberts in today’s show. Dan is an accomplished Explorer and avid athlete pursuing astonishing accomplishments and in our lively chat he shares his contagious enthusiasm for travel. and boldly seizing opportunities. You’ll hear how reading "On the road" as a teen sparked Dans Intrepid attitude. Propelling him to solo backpacking adventures worldwide. And this instilled a lifelong adventurous mindset.

Learn how Dan transitioned from tennis coaching at 16 into a prolific 30 year coaching career across fitness film, and more. And he now runs retreats and works with elite athletes and actors. Dan believes being proactive means confidently taking action and getting out of your comfort zone. He explains why having a coach signifies a proactive mindset. Yet ego often prevents people from utilizing coaches.

I hope you enjoy this uplifting episode about living life as a bold adventure with Dan Roberts. Please subscribe to the art of living proactively on your favorite podcast platform or on YouTube. Leave us a sparkling five star review and share this episode with friends.

Welcome to The Art of Living Proactively. My guest today, Dan Roberts. How are you doing, Dan?

[00:01:29] Dan Roberts: I’m doing great. How are you, Tony?

[00:01:30] Tony Winyard: I’m pretty good. And, we’re back in the UK today. Recently, a lot of my guests have been, in the States. but we’re in Surrey today.

[00:01:37] Dan Roberts: We are leafy Surrey. Very domesticated.

[00:01:42] Tony Winyard: Have you always lived around there?

[00:01:43] Dan Roberts: No, I’m from Manchester and, I’ve traveled around a bit and, getting in my late forties now and like everybody, I end up moving out to the country and it’s as far as I can handle because I was still in London for years. And, this is about as far out of London as I can manage before I go mad.

So that’s why we chose Surrey.

[00:02:01] Tony Winyard: You don’t have any Mancunian accent at all.

[00:02:03] Dan Roberts: I’ve moved around a lot. I’ve lived in lots of different, I’ve lived in America, Australia, Asia. I’ve lived all over the place, so over the years it’s been pushed out of me. So yeah, I still say grass and master. That’s very Mancunian.

yeah, apart from that,

[00:02:16] Tony Winyard: and I know what you mean, actually, because I lived abroad for 12 years, and in that 12 years, I had to get rid of my London accent because people couldn’t understand what I was saying. So I had to teach myself to speak slowly and clearly and so on. But when I went back to London, yeah, then it came back

[00:02:32] Dan Roberts: Yeah, when I go back up north, it takes me like two days. Then it will come back again, but. I went to a university down south and no one can understand what I said. So I made a really conscious effort to slow down to not swear so much to speak more clearly. And just over the years, just by hanging out in the south and not going back home that much, it’s it slowly went back to more neutral, which I guess I am today.

But yeah, I haven’t really thought about it that much.

[00:02:59] Tony Winyard: you just mentioned that you’ve, you’ve lived in quite a few places. And was that in connection, because I know that you’re, you’re a trainer and as you mentioned, you’ve been a coach for a long time. Is that what you were doing when you were traveling abroad?

[00:03:09] Began coaching at 16

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[00:03:09] Dan Roberts: yeah, I started coaching when I was 16, which is 30, just over 30 years ago, so it’s been a long time and, I, yeah, I traveled with my work. I went to different countries and set up base there and I was coaching, and then I get bored and moved to a different country. So pretty much it was related to work.

if I’m honest, it’s it wasn’t like my career led me there. It’s like I wanted to go abroad and I had a skill and my kind of career developed. but yeah, it’s nice to see the world when you can, if you’re lucky enough to see the world, I think we should.

[00:03:40] Tony Winyard: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with you more. So how did you manage to start coaching at 16?

[00:03:45] Dan Roberts: I was a tennis coach. I was good at tennis. That helps . I was good at tennis and I,I just did some qualifications because it . I was always a person. I was like, from age, oh God, as long as back as I remember, I was always one. People used to go to, to ask advice. Like even at school, people would always ask me advice about stuff.

Not that I’d give good advice, but I was just one of those people who liked, I liked hanging out with people and I liked giving advice, I guess. So when I would, I was pretty good at tennis when I was younger, and I just decided to do some courses and work at my local tennis club to do coaching and, just ’cause I like the idea of hanging out with people, talking with people teaching.

It always appealed to me at that young age. and I’m a much better coach than I’m an athlete, so it worked out well. and my career evolved. Obviously, I’m into fitness now. my career quickly changed to fitness in my early twenties, but, it’s still the same stuff. Hanging out with people, giving advice, essentially not having a proper job.

[00:04:41] Tony Winyard: So you’ve, your main income, you’ve always been a coach?

[00:04:45] Running 3 companies

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[00:04:45] Dan Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. I run three different companies now, all related to coaching, but my, I’m essentially a fitness instructor, but I sell programs, do retreats, do consulting and all the other stuff people do. But essentially I’m a coach, so I make my money via giving people advice, but it’s just different kind of forms of doing it.

[00:05:04] What do you prefer doing?

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[00:05:04] Tony Winyard: So what is your, what do you prefer to do? What is your preferred? What are you happy, what are you happiest doing?

[00:05:10] Dan Roberts: I love what I’m doing now. I like the variety. I never stopped one-to-one. One-to-one. Coaching, I guess is my favorite thing. So I think I’ve done, I worked it out a couple of years ago. When I worked it out, I was on like 31, I think it was 31,000 hours, so I must be on like 33, 30 4,000 hours of one-to-one coaching.

So I wouldn’t have got that far. If I didn’t enjoy it. So that has to be my first love. But I think if I only did one-to-one, I think I would’ve been bored by the time I hit 35 or something. I think having, building up, having employees and building up brands and writing programs, writing qualifications, going on retreats and building a brand as it were, has been quite exciting.

And now I do quite a few things in my day. I don’t just do one-to-one coaching and I think that keeps me, . Stimulated and it keeps things interesting and it means I don’t get bored. ’cause that’s like the worst feeling for me being bored.

[00:05:59] What are the differences between coaching, mentoring and consulting?

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[00:05:59] Tony Winyard: What are the differences between coaching, mentoring and consulting?

[00:06:05] Dan Roberts: really good question. I. And I think, I don’t know if there’s a right answer to this, everyone’s got a different take, but in my view, mentoring is when you’ve been there and done that. I do. For example, I mentor a lot of businesses like gyms and coaches who want to build their brand, and I work as a business mentor.

When I do that, I give them advice and I share my own experience. . . So it’s been there, done that. So I was like, oh, don’t do this, because I’ve, I know what it’s like. So you hold them accountable and you, yeah, you hold ’em accountable, which I guess you do in coaching too. But I think it comes from a place where you really have been there and done it before.

In coaching, I think it’s actually less about your knowledge and more about actually the way you communicate and the way you hold people accountable. I think obviously it would help if you have a background of knowing your stuff. But I do think the best coaches aren’t necessarily the best experts. there’s a lot of people with PhDs in kinesiology who aren’t very good coaches.

it’s it’s, I think actually being able to communicate, break things down, have empathy and leadership. I think coaching is about that balance of empathy and leadership. And if you do that well, you’re a great coach. And consulting is just when people pay you to find a solution to something, whatever it may be.

So when I consult with, I, I have two different consulting sort of roles, as it were. I work a lot on, films, on Hollywood films, and then it’s a very specific problem in terms of the cast needs to look a certain way or the, there needs to be a certain amount of performance, and I advise about that.

Or I work for hotels and they pay me to basically come in and look after their wellbeing strategy. So the Four Seasons or Shangri-La will ask me and my company to come in and overview, change the way they do wellbeing. So we’ll look at their food menu, their running club, their gym, lay out, all that stuff. So it’s a very specific problem and they’ll, I know it might be a contract for three months and they pay my company to create a solution, and then I go, There’s no ongoing stuff where coaching is very much ongoing.

[00:08:05] Tony Winyard: And do you have a preference, whether it’s face to face or remote?

[00:08:11] Do you feel online or face to face is better?

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[00:08:11] Dan Roberts: originally I always preferred face-to-face, but like a lot of people, I was like, I had to pivot during the pandemic and suddenly. , I wasn’t like, my entire, 90% of my business was face-to-face before the pandemic. now, as I speak right now, it’s 90% online, so completely shift. And I quite like it.

I quite like the, I quite like the online stuff now. maybe, ’cause it’s still novel. It’s only been a few years, but I see private clients over Zoom. we, yeah, a lot of the consulting I do now is over Zoom and over phone calls and, I, maybe I’m just getting old and I quite working from home, but I like it at the moment, but I think maybe in another year I’ll probably go back and do a bit more work in London.

It’s nice to, it’s nice sometimes not to have a complete plan and to see what happens in work. And now what do you think? What do you like?

[00:09:02] Tony Winyard: like you, before the pandemic, all of my work was face to face, 100%. I had to pivot like many other people did, and now I’m the opposite. Now 100 percent of my work is

[00:09:15] Dan Roberts: And do you like it more?

[00:09:16] Tony Winyard: want to go

[00:09:16] Dan Roberts: Oh.

[00:09:17] Tony Winyard: I want to go back to face. I mean I like doing the online stuff, but I prefer the face to face stuff.

But I haven’t made as much effort as I should have to go back to doing face to face stuff.

[00:09:28] Dan Roberts: it’s quite easy to be online. that’s the problem. , it’s quite easy, like in terms of like scheduling, like clients and stuff, you can do a lot when people come to you, but I have found that I have to work harder to build rapport and to because normally like I, I, one of my biggest strengths is I can get on with people very quickly and I find like face-to-face normally in 20 seconds, 30 seconds.

I know I’m set online, takes me like 20 minutes. , but I’m better than I used to be. But it’s, it’s still, I think when you’re with people, you can pick up on body language and things a bit better maybe.

[00:10:02] Tony Winyard: and that was, I was just thinking about what would you say are the pros and cons of both for face to face and online?

[00:10:08] What are the pros and cons of online and face to face?

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[00:10:08] Dan Roberts: for who? For the client or for the, for someone like me.

[00:10:12] Tony Winyard: For both, from your point of view and from a client’s point

[00:10:14] Dan Roberts: from the client’s point of view, which I guess is the most important,the convenience of of being able to see me wherever they are in the world is really handy. ’cause my clients tend to travel around a bit. So the ones who like it love it.

And the ones who don’t like it, I don’t see because they really don’t like it. So that’s where it’s gone. in terms of me, the benefits are definitely in terms of actually scheduling, like I can . Because I’ve got, ’cause I’m just, let’s take the online business, like the online like personal training side of things.

I have far more people who wanna work with me than I have space for. So I can plan out my day from, I can see someone at 6:00 AM 7.30, 9, and this morning I saw someone from Indonesia than America, Australia, like all over the world because I know quite a lot of people. It’s like I’m always booked up and if it, that’s quite nice and it’s a lot easier Where in London.

It takes about, if I went back to London now, it would take me about six months to get that kind of back-to-back appointments. And then it’s a couple of people leave, it takes another few weeks to get that back. So there’s always a bit of, it’s never perfectly like fully booked. I always have to work a little bit harder, but online it’s it’s easy.

[00:11:25] Tony Winyard: So yeah, it’s definitely more convenient. So maybe I’m just being a bit lazy ’cause I’m like, I’m just hanging out online a lot ’cause it’s definitely easier for me. And the clients said, the clients who like it, love it. but it’s not for everyone, Yeah.

[00:11:37] Dan Roberts: but,

[00:11:38] Tony Winyard: And so in terms of the, you mentioned there like personal training, and I know you’ve talked about some other types of coaching that you do as well.

[00:11:46] Dan Roberts: Do you have a preference for any sort of particular type of coaching you do?

[00:11:50] What style of coaching do you prefer?

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[00:11:50] Dan Roberts: I, my job is quite varied. my private clients,I see a handful of private clients, I guess. looking after them. When I, the people I tend to work with, they tend to be on a project basis, so they have to get results like usually in six months or a year. For normally my clients, their career is slightly based on their body, so be there an athlete or model, an actor, they’re the three kind of sets of people I work with.

It’s usually pretty important that they make changes, . Being in charge of that is, is an honor. It’s a privilege and it’s a responsibility. So I like that. I like when you’re working with an athlete and they’re injured. They’ve got, I dunno, you’re doing a c l recovery and they’ve gotta get back and compete in six months time.

That’s really cool. Or if you’ve got a, an actor, then they’re the star of a big film starting in six months and they have to put on size and they’re tiny and they have to get big and you have to do it by a certain day. That’s exciting. So I like it when there’s a time pressure. Because then it focuses my mind.

It focuses their mind, and it feels like we’re on a mission together. And that’s cool. that’s really exciting, I think gets the best out of me as a coach when I’m emotionally involved. And it’s quite hard goal.

[00:12:57] Tony Winyard: So if you’re working with someone, like you just mentioned, they’ve got a specific role and they maybe need to bulk up or whatever the case might be. So are you giving them a, like a workout plan as such, and then holding them accountable and where, how would it work with a

[00:13:11] Dan Roberts: No, I physically,I work with them like if it’s like back when I was doing face-to-face, I’d be with them and I’d travel around with them. So I’d basically live with them, hang out with them, and do the workout with them. When it’s on online, I, every time they go to the gym, I’ll be with them.

On a Zoom call. so they don’t do stuff by themself because even though self-accountability is important and like for long term, that’s a really good strategy to have. But when the stakes are high and you have to get results, we can’t leave anything to chance. So I need to be in control of what they’re eating, what they’re, when they’re gonna bed, when they, what time they wake up, what training, all of it.

When I’m in complete control, then they get the results. and that’s what I’m paid for.

[00:13:52] Tony Winyard: What would you say is, I wonder if there is, what is the hardest part of coaching or is there nothing that’s hard?

[00:14:01] What is the hardest part of coaching?

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[00:14:01] Dan Roberts: It’s a really good question. what’s the hardest part of coaching? I don’t think it, no, I don’t think it is hard if you keep your, . If you stay on the ball in terms of that you particularly when you’ve been a coach for a long time, it’s really important to remember that your client is the star, not you. And sometimes we get so obsessed with our own, like building our brands and building our companies and trying to get in magazines or whatever it be.

And we sometimes, I try not to, but I’ve seen it where sometimes coaches forget that. They’re supposed to be supportive. They’re not supposed to be well known. They’re not supposed to be Instagram stars, . It’s I think the client is a star. And I think if you, as long as you remember that, that keeps you grounded, it keeps you rightly humble as we should be, because they’re the people paying us, and we’re helping them.

And then, and then there’s, and then there’s no danger of getting ego involved. And actually you’re there for the right reasons and you’re helping them. Technically, there’s always things as you grow older as a coach, things you might do differently in terms of understanding how the body works, how the mind works.

But I think as long as your intention is pure and you’re like a nice person and you’re kind, and you’re truly thinking about your clients like best wishes, then even if you’re not that skilled, it’s still okay. It’s still, you’re still doing a nice job. so I think, yeah, sorry it’s a convoluted answer, I apologize, but I think as long as you, as long as you stay

Remain clear, like what your role is to support your client or clients, then I think it’s actually incredible. it’s easy and it’s fun, and actually I think it’s the best job in the world. I can’t think of anything better than coaching people. As long as you like people, , then it’s fine.

[00:15:34] Tony Winyard: That’s quite

[00:15:34] Dan Roberts: isn’t it?

yeah.

[00:15:37] Where do you feel coaches go wrong?

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[00:15:37] Tony Winyard: Where do you think maybe coaches go wrong when they first come into the business?

[00:15:42] Dan Roberts: I don’t think everyone gets into coaching for what I would say the right reasons are. It’s a bit arrogant to say what’s right and wrong, but I don’t think, I know when I started, like I really wanted to help people and it wasn’t like I wanted to train celebrities or I didn’t wanna make money, that was irrelevant.

It was like the, those things come in slightly, I guess in terms of secondary goals, but I really wanted to make a difference to individuals who worked with me. And I do see sometimes with, when I do lecturing, when I mentor younger coaches, that when I ask what their goals are, it’s not always, I wanna be really good sometimes, I wanna be rich, I wanna be, I wanna train Hollywood stars, I wanna do this.

It’s that’s all about you. Maybe you should focus about how you can, how much you can offer, how you can serve. ’cause the more you can serve, the more value you can get and your career will naturally raise up. So I think people are a bit too switched on with like branding and marketing and success nowadays.

And I’m not against all that stuff, but I don’t, I think sometimes coaches forget that the main role is, the main thing is to focus on their clients and just do a really good job and take pride in your work. And when you do that, . Nice things tend to happen in careers. if you are kind and good at what you do, you tend to get talked about behind your back and nice things happen and you can build a career very successfully without screwing people over, without being like a hardcore salesperson just by doing your job properly.

but it’s not very sexy to tell people that they want,they want to go viral immediately or they wanna have something their usps and it’s yeah. I don’t know. What do you think? Let me ask you, you’ve done this for a while, haven’t you?

[00:17:17] Tony Winyard: in terms of what do I, where do people go wrong?

[00:17:20] Dan Roberts: In terms of coaches,

[00:17:22] Tony Winyard: I would say, I’m obviously much newer to the game than you are because my background was not as a coach. I was, I did something quite different when I lived abroad. and just in case you’re probably wondering, what the hell was that

[00:17:32] Dan Roberts: I’m waiting to hear. Yeah. what did you do?

[00:17:35] Tony Winyard: I was a DJ.

[00:17:36] Dan Roberts: You are a dj, you look a bit

[00:17:38] Tony Winyard: Yeah, so I lived abroad as a DJ for many years. yeah. So coach, I’m much newer to coaching. I’ve been doing it five years or so, really, so I would see, and obviously I know a lot of coaches who are a similar boat to me have only been doing it for a, a couple of years, few years or whatever.

I think one of the hardest things when you first start is not telling clients what to do and actually coaching them rather than

[00:18:03] Dan Roberts: Oh yeah. Like facilitating change rather than telling. Yeah. Yeah. that comes with experience. So surely after you realize that it doesn’t work when you tell people what to do,

[00:18:13] Tony Winyard: in you, it’s difficult at first to, to stop yourself from doing that.

[00:18:16] Dan Roberts: Yeah. Or when you go on a, you read a new book or you go on a new course and suddenly you change, you pivot the way you check change and that gets . Beaten out of you after about 10 years of coaching , I think, or maybe five years , it gets easier. I think. Like I say, as long as you like look at, as long as you remember, the clients are like the star and everyth think you’re doing is to help your clients get better results.

Then everything you absorb in life, the experiences, life experiences, or books you read or whatever, they will help make you like a better mentor or better coach.

[00:18:47] What do you think about coaches who don’t have a coach?

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[00:18:47] Tony Winyard: What are your thoughts on coaches who don’t have a coach themselves?

[00:18:51] Dan Roberts: do you mean not have any kind of coach or do you mean Yeah, I think it’s odd. I think it’s very strange, because if you believe in the coaching process and you believe, like it makes sense to have someone to tell you stuff you don’t know and maybe, or at least hold you accountable. if you don’t really believe in it, if you don’t have any skin in the game and believe that makes sense.

It feels a bit like lack of integrity to then offer it to other people. So I find it very bizarre. I guess that, I’m a, essentially, I’m a strength and conditioning coach, personal trainer. I don’t have a personal trainer working with me. But when I wanna learn. Gymnastics. I go to gymnastics coach.

When I wanna learn how to do Muay Hai, I go to Muay Thai coach. So I have loads of coaches for things I wanna learn. I don’t have someone looking after my overall fitness, but I have specific people I would go to always. I have done all my life because it’s the quickest way of learning stuff.

It’s by finding someone who knows more than you who can communicate and they can, it saves you loads of time. it, to me, it’s like a no brainer. Like every athlete out there has a coach. it’s it’s, and I’ve being a coach for 30 years, I’ve seen how amazing results you can have when you have a good relationship with a client and you give good advice and you hold ’em accountable, and you push them, and, you, you’ve worked with them, not just like pampered to them, but you really challenge them, push them.

It’s amazing what people can do. yeah, no, I find it very strange as I’m sure you do. I’m guessing you do too. That’s why you asked that question.

[00:20:17] Tony Winyard: Yeah, I’ve got a couple of coaches and I’ve had coaches for many years. And I guess one of the reasons for asking that is because one thing coming from the DJ world and the DJ mindset is very different to many other industries. I don’t know what the right word is, but DJs really rail against having a coach.

You should be good enough. You should be able to do it. Many DJs don’t have a mentor or a coach or. They might have been a roadie for someone when they first started doing it and then after that you’ve got to do it on your own. I’m not saying, obviously, I’m generalizing. Obviously not everyone thinks like that, but you’d be amazed at how many do

[00:20:54] Dan Roberts: Why do you think that is? Is it a co, is it because it’s mainly like young guys bit, a bit of e, bit of ego. Like they don’t like admitting

[00:21:02] Tony Winyard: You’ve got to have an ego to be a DJ

[00:21:04] Dan Roberts: gotta stand in front of thousands of people and everyone listen to me. There’s gotta be some kind of self-confidence in there, which is linked to ego, particularly when you’re younger.

Right.

[00:21:13] Tony Winyard: yeah, but the problem with DJing is ego is imperative, as you said, because you’re, you’re in front of that many people, but it can very easily get out of control.

[00:21:23] Dan Roberts: Yeah.

[00:21:23] Tony Winyard: And it often does.

[00:21:24] Dan Roberts: That’s part of the fun though, isn’t it? when you’re young.

[00:21:28] Tony Winyard: Yeah,

[00:21:29] Dan Roberts: to be a

[00:21:30] Tony Winyard: it can, when it goes,

[00:21:32] Dan Roberts: So there must have been. So which led you that path.

[00:21:34] What led to Tony becoming a DJ

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[00:21:34] Tony Winyard: well for me it was different. I fell into it by accident. I was crazy about music as a kid. I was always buying records all the time. And one day I was doing a friend’s party. I was like 14 or something and the manager of the venue, it was upstairs in a function room in a pub, and the manager of the pub said, How much do you charge?

And I was like, a charge for what? He says for DJing. I said, I’m not a DJ. He said, what have you just been doing? And then so I fell into it. It wasn’t something that I aspired to, I just

[00:22:00] Dan Roberts: Yeah.

And then my whole thinking changed because then I thought, oh wow, I’m a DJ. Whereas before, I just loved music, Wow. what made you change from a DJ to doing what you’re doing now?

[00:22:12] Tony Winyard: I still DJ. It’s, I’ll still be doing it when they’re putting me under probably because I’ve done it my whole life, but I’m getting a lot older now. It’s not something… I could, can do for the rest of my

[00:22:25] Dan Roberts: way. Yeah. When I’m 80, in parties. And I look a lot younger than I am.

[00:22:32] Tony Winyard: I’m 60 in a few weeks time. So I now I’m 60 in a few weeks time.

[00:22:40] Dan Roberts: Yeah. I get that reaction all the time.

crazy.

[00:22:44] Tony Winyard: Yeah. And so I guess one of the reasons why I started coaching is because I’ve had so many people ask me, how is it you’re able to like, cause I’m pretty fit. and I do, I’m like way faster when I play football, I’m way faster than people 20 years younger than me.

And so I often get people asking me about how is it I’m able to stay so, so healthy, fit, whatever the case may be. And so that’s how I got into coaching in one way, but the bigger part really was a lot of my family died young, like my brothers, my dad all died in their fifties. My mom went through a long time of sort of chronic illness and she wouldn’t.

listen to changes in lifestyle or nutrition. She just trusted the doctors who never suggested changing nutrition or doing anything about her lifestyle. And so it was those are the main reasons I got into it,

[00:23:38] Dan Roberts: Yeah, I was watching your video actually on your website. I’m sorry to hear about your mum, but it’s it’s, it’s very powerful how these kind of horrible events really shape us and, I. No, I, my mom and dad passed away a couple of years ago from cancer, so I get it. And it’s it’s so frustrating at times when you see how, like, how doctors are one way and it’s there’s so much information out there, but yeah.

[00:24:02] The White Coat syndrome

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[00:24:02] Tony Winyard: And it was more my mum had the white coat syndrome thing, she would only listen to someone who’s got a white coat

[00:24:08] Dan Roberts: Yeah.

[00:24:09] Tony Winyard: and it was a shame because she, yeah, last few years of her life weren’t great. Yeah.

[00:24:13] Dan Roberts: I think culturally, maybe it’s a slight age thing, like nowadays less, I think people are a little bit more, I don’t know, a little bit more cynical about . I dunno, maybe they’re not, I’m thinking like people I know my age wouldn’t necessarily just automatically listen to one doctor.

They’d always get a second opinion or explore alternatives. definitely my kind of group of friends. Anyway. It wouldn’t, if an expert said something, it wouldn’t be like, okay, then it’s and I think there’s more, slightly more, critical thinking going on maybe than 30 years ago. I don’t know.

What do you think?

[00:24:45] Tony Winyard: that’s such a good. Yeah, no, I agree and it needs to be because yeah, you can’t just accept just because one doctor says something that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right. You have to get a

[00:24:57] Evidence led, not evidence based

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[00:24:57] Dan Roberts: and science is always a little bit slow to catch. I mean, I’m in my work in terms of particularly like the fitness training side of things. I’m definitely like evidence led, but I’m not evidence-based. I. So I, I look at science, I look at the latest studies. I try to keep up to date, but I know for a fact some things I’m doing haven’t been studied yet.

So of course there’s no evidence for it. There’s always time to catch up. it is we don’t need to find out that, I don’t know that vaping is bad for us, do we To realize it’s probably not a good idea to get into vaping now, or whatever. Or there’s all kind of things people do nowadays, which are obviously not good for.

[00:25:33] Tony Winyard: from toxin, toxins in our diet, all kinds of things, which seemed very like hippie like, eccentric stuff like 20 years ago now is considered like even organic, like organic food. Like in the seventies we’d be like, oh, that’s weird. Now it’s it’s weird not to eat organic. So I think people are getting more awake to looking after themselves, but maybe I’m in a bubble because I’m in Southern England and stuff.

[00:25:56] Dan Roberts: But I, I do feel like it’s changing a little bit. I.

[00:26:00] Tony Winyard: I think it is changing but slowly but yeah It is changing and hopefully that change will continue and I mean what you just said that just then about you know there’s some things that haven’t been proven yet and so on. I lived in the Far East for nearly 10 years and People’s approach to medicine and health is very different out there.

So I, I saw how their approach was, and I think that definitely had an influence on me. And there was many things that in the West we would say were not proven. But they were working for everyone out there, so they just did it. They didn’t care that the West didn’t believe in some of those things,

[00:26:36] Dan Roberts: yeah, Chinese medicine is like a whole completely different system. And even like I used to live in Thailand, for a while and I remember having a headache and straight away. Like some local guy was like massaging my head. It’s this is what they do to get rid of headaches. No one pops in Nurofen, , everyone just like head massage.

I was like, why wasn’t used to that, but that’s much better. And it’s just yeah, every different cultures, different parts of the world have different ways of dealing with things. And I think,Western Medicine I’m a fan of, but it’s I think it’s a bit, it’s a bit naive to think that’s the only thing, particularly because there’s new stuff coming out all the time.

[00:27:09] Tony Winyard: yeah. What are your thoughts on,yeah, podcast is about, being proactive. What are your thoughts on that?

[00:27:14] Dan’s thoughts on being proactive

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[00:27:14] Dan Roberts: About being proactive? in the sense that I think it’s very, in, I think life is more fun when you are take confident and bold actions, rather than letting things happen to you. I think sometimes life is tough, like you’ve dealt with loss and stuff like I think we all do at some point and deal with bad things happen in our lives and sometimes shit happens.

But we can, to a certain degree, control how we react to things in life and having put positive spin on stuff. And just in terms of like our careers, our love life, our social life, our kind of adventure life is so much more fun when you just make decisions and take bold action, I suppose.

And I’ve also found over the years that. You can create a habit of being proactive and then it becomes just part of who you are. And it’s a lot easier, I think if you’re stuck in a rutt for 20 years, it’s very scary, like of going out of your comfort zone. But once you do it once, it’s like a little bit and then you just think else maybe a little bit more before you know it.

it’s like life has opened up. It’s, beautiful opportunities to you. yeah, I always encourage people to take control as much as they can. And, And also get outta the comfort zone. It can be a bit scary when you’re doing things which feel well, which feel a bit sort of foreign to you, I guess.

Or it’s a fear of failure, which is a big thing, which holds people back. And it’s such a shame because who cares? . It’s know if you try something, it doesn’t work. At least you tried. You know what I mean? It’s like I failed in my work. I fail constantly, And like in the pandemic, I have a few companies, the pandemic had to shut one.

I had a, one of my companies is a retreat business. That obviously did terribly in the pandemic, but I also had a business which did online like fitness training, which did really well, and it’s it wasn’t like I was happy or because How was the pandemic for you financially? I was like, something was good, things were bad.

It’s it’s just part of the adventure, you know what I mean? It’s like, you know, there’s always good and bad. It’s always yin and yang to everything, so you might as well just take control as much as you can and try and enjoy the process of it all.

[00:29:07] Having a coach signifies you are proactive

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[00:29:07] Tony Winyard: It just occurred to me as you were speaking and I never thought about this way before but if you’re, if you have a coach that signifies you’ve got a proactive attitude in many ways because you

[00:29:18] Dan Roberts: Yeah.

[00:29:19] Tony Winyard: otherwise you wouldn’t have a coach would

[00:29:20] Dan Roberts: it shows you’re proactive. It also shows you’ve got a little bit of humility because if you’re completely like overridden of ego, you won’t like, like a lot of like young alpha male types, They will never get a coach. A lot of 25 year old guys would never go to a personal trainer because they’re like, I know what I’m doing.

And it’s that’s why most personal trainers work with women because there’s less ego. I talk to most personal trainers, nearly all of them work with more women because it’s easier because it’s not, there’s not a competitive element. With guys it tends to be, not always, but there tends to be a bit more of a I know what I’m doing.

And it’s like you have to look after their ego , which is like exhausting. now I think it shows a bit of humility. it shows maturity, like accepting and saying I don’t, I don’t know about this particular subject, so I wanna learn more. I. and it shows a bit of intelligence.

It’s a lot quicker to learn something of someone who’s been there, done that, and if you wanna learn about something, you read a book or hire a coach, that makes much more sense than working out by yourself. that’s a very odd way of living to figure it all out by ourselves. When we’ve got all this amazing information out there, we’ve got people who’ve dedicated their careers to whatever medicine or yoga or Pilates or dance or whatever, there’s so many experts out there.

Why not? people who love what they do and are passionate about it and spend hours and hours researching things. why on earth wouldn’t you use them to enrich your life? It just seems,it seems odd, but I think most people look how many coaches there are. There must, there must be more of a general exception of coaches because there’s more life coaches out there.

There’s more business coaches out there, there’s more trainers out there. it is gr as an industry. Like in the West particularly, it is growing massively compared to like when I started 30 years ago, like you go to a park in Central London, there was no personal trainer like in a park. Now you go to any park in London, there’s 40 personal trainers there.

There’s gyms everywhere, So it’s and people have business mentors now. That’s not that weird, where 20 years ago, no one would have a business mentor. Now it’s standard, So it’s. I do think it’s growing in an industry which proves that actually people are more open to it, which is a good thing.

[00:31:23] How might AI impact coaching

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[00:31:23] Tony Winyard: How do you think AI might impact things?

[00:31:26] Dan Roberts: That’s a very specific question. I don’t know. , I don’t know. I don’t think, I think with AI and machine learning it comes to, like, when I’ve seen . Early ai and I’ve seen machine learning on apps like fitness and wellbeing apps. it can do a better job than bad coaches, but nothing can beat a good coach.

A good coach who actually works with someone who actually really thinks about that person. I definitely can be beaten by any kind of technology, but someone who’s a bit rubbish. They can be, I think a clever computer program can probably do more in terms of sending emails for accountability and all that stuff.

But when you really, when you talk to someone who’s like a coach and they know you and they pick up on your like body language and say, you okay Tony what’s going on today? And like they listen to you, that, that’s invaluable, And you know when someone comes in a bit upset, you push them hard, you.

You let ’em have a little cry, do you go, do you stop the session, take ’em out, have a coffee? It’s very hard to have an algorithm to decide what to do, but when you’re a human, we can pick up on these things and with our life experience, we can kinda go, actually, I think the best thing to do in this situation is this, which may not be part of their program, but it’s the right thing to do for that person.

And I dunno how a computer program could ever do that.

[00:32:39] Tony Winyard: If someone’s listening to this and maybe they don’t have a coach and they’re Something they’re considering and they’re not quite sure how to go about it. What would you say, what should someone look for in a good coach?

[00:32:52] What should someone look for in a good coach?

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[00:32:52] Dan Roberts: I’ll preface that by saying if you find someone who’s a really good coach, regardless of what they’re teaching, I think you should hire them. Regardless, because I think being around someone who’s really knowledgeable and passionate and can communicate, which are the three things you need to coach, I mentioned earlier about having that balance of empathy and leadership as well.

When you meet someone who has these characteristics and they talk about what they do with passion, you should be around that. Even if you don’t, even if they’re teaching knitting and you don’t care about knitting, it’s important to be around like enthusiastic, like passionate people. Because that’s how we should be, I think in life.

And sometimes life can get tough, and it’s important to remind yourself that it’s like we need bits of joy, we need enthusiasm, we need, it’s so easy to be cynical, particularly as you get older, and I think it’s very well at all ages now. It’s easy to be cynical and you, I think you need to do anything you can to fight against that and to remind yourself that life is fun.

[00:33:50] It’s a big adventure

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[00:33:50] Dan Roberts: It’s a big adventure. There’s lots of amazing things to learn, lots of really fascinating people out there. And you wanna be around those people. and it’s also nice to learn new shit, whatever it may be. Yeah. Be it whatever, like gymnastic or be it, gymnastics or Kung fu or Tai Chi or Pilates or learning how to sing, learning how to dance, whatever.

There’s millions of things to do. I’m biased because I love the world of physical stuff and I have a belief that we are all designed to be athletes and life is more fun and more enriched and more natural and more authentic. When we live closer to our athletic selves. So I think regardless of our age or disabilities, whatever, we should always strive to jump and twist and pull and punch and run and climb and all these things because that’s how we’re designed to be.

We’re not designed to be what . Both of us are doing now sitting in front of a screen. It’s unnatural, we’re not designed to sit on chairs again, which both of us are doing now. Chairs. How long have they been around? A hundred years. That’s not natural. No wonders. Everyone in the west has got tight hit flexors and weak glutes.

So we sit down all day, So I think the more we yeah, move back to our natural athletic self, the better. So I’m obviously biased towards that, but going back to your question, just find someone who’s passionate and knows, and has studied stuff and just . even if they’re not a proper coach, just ask to hang out with them.

it’s infectious.

[00:35:11] Tony Winyard: Have you written a book?

[00:35:12] Dan Roberts: Have I written a book? I’m writing one at the moment,

[00:35:17] Tony Winyard: I can.

[00:35:18] Dan Roberts: and I keep getting told off by my literary agent, Dory. She’s lovely, but it was supposed to be out two years ago and I didn’t finish it, so it was a bone of contention. so I’ll let you know when it’s out, but,No, I actually, I, I try to give a lot of free resources away.

I think like you are doing your podcast, which by the way, I was looking at how many episodes you’ve done. I’m so impressed how consistent you’ve been. it’s so difficult to do all the way through. but I have various resources and stuff I try and give away for free to help people, which is like the next best thing I guess.

But I’d love to write a book. And I’m doing it. I’m just, I guess I’m just lazy. ’cause it should, because it’s not finished yet.

[00:35:58] Tony Winyard: And what are your thoughts on, who is it aimed at? What will it be about?

[00:36:02] Dan Roberts: I’m not allowed to tell anyone I’m afraid ’cause I’ve already got a publishing deal. hopefully it will be a, it’ll be good , but I’ll be told off they were, I’ll let you know when that’s out and I’m just setting myself up to failure if I tell you exactly what it’s about and it comes out and it’s different.

[00:36:16] "The reason that I do what I do"

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[00:36:16] Dan Roberts: but. Look, my, my main thing is I, the reason I do what I do, not my private clients, yes, but also the qualifications and the courses and the consulting and the retreats is just to help people connect their mind and body more. That’s essentially what I do. it, on the outside it looks like I give people these dramatic transformations and that is a part of what I do, but that gets the people in.

But what I really do, Yes, I help people dramatically change their body for films and stuff, but inside of that, I help them like really feel what it’s like to be an athlete. And that’s what, that’s the most fun part of what I do. Problem is if I just said, Hey, I’m just like a mind body connection, coach, coach, I’d have no clients.

it’s, I have to like also help people change their body, get fit, lose weight, all that stuff. but that’s their goal. But my goal is to help ’em connect their mind and body and we work together and I’m very open about it when I meet them. I’m like, yeah, fine. I’ll get you this. But also if you work with me, I also want you to learn how to do a pull up.

I want you to learn how to, learn about proper eating. I want you to learn how to fight, like how to do kungfu or Muy Thai. Like it’s my responsibility as a coach, not just to give you results. ’cause you don’t always know what you want. My, my responsibility is give you results, part one, but also.

I give you things, which I think are good for you because I’m the expert. I’ve done this for 30 years, so you know that’s the deal I give to all my clients. And it’s if you want that, then we’ll work together if not, and go with someone else. and that, that’s how I do things nowadays.

[00:37:42] Tony Winyard: we talked about, I asked you about a book just now, so staying on the same topic, would you, is there a book you can think of that’s moved you for any reason?

[00:37:50] "On the road"

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[00:37:50] Dan Roberts: Yeah, I can think very clearly. It’s a bit cliched, but I read this book when I was 16. it was Jack Kerouac book called On the Road, and it was a part of the Beat Generation. So you know, Neil Cassady Lawrence Ferlinghetti,, Allan Ginsberg, all those guys. for those listeners who don’t know, there was like a bunch of writers in the mid forties to like late fifties in America.

and they were the first people to really, one of the first people to really write about their own experience and to find out what truth is. Kind of a little bit existentialist in a way, but they’re trying to figure out what’s important in life. And there were being young guys decided it was about travel, sex, women, experimentation with religion, everything.

Quite nowadays, quite basic, I guess, but back in the fifties no one did that kind of stuff. No one traveled the world and experimented with drugs and sexuality and stuff. No one did that back then. there were Buddhists, no one was Buddhists in 1948, people were Buddhists in the seventies, so it was really ahead of its time.

And, this book on the road, the, it’s the main character is basically it’s about two best friends. Jack Kerouac. The author and Neil Cassady his best mate, and they just travel through America and they just, it’s a conversations they have between them and it’s about life and it’s about travel. And he, the way he writes a bit like a.

Like a jazz pianist, and it kind of flows. He Wrote the whole book in like three days, apparently. it just like flow, like a stream of consciousness. And when you read it at a certain age, both of us, particularly you’re too old to read it now. . You have to read it when you’re young, when you’re impressionable, and when you’re that you’ve got that beautiful and that naivety when you’re young, that anything’s possible.

so you read it when you’re like 15 or 16, even maybe 20 and . All you wanna do is give up life and see the world and travel and read about Buddhism and try different things out. and I read that book and exactly what I did and I was like, I wanna travel and see the world. So when I was 17, yeah, I was 17, I backpacked around America by myself and that I did that for four months and that gave me so much confidence and it gave me so much joy that I.

I went to at least, I think it was like 45, 50 countries by the time I was 24, 25 by myself. just traveling around like learning languages and doing different bits and that’s why, I wasn’t, I was coaching, but that wasn’t really my life. I was just like a young hippie and that definitely affected how I look at life now even, I see life as an adventure.

and I see talk about being proactive. I was proactive when I was young. I bought that one-way ticket to Lima. I bought that one-way ticket to Bangkok and with a little bit of money in my pocket and to see what happened. And when you do shit like that and good stuff happens, and adventures happen and good memories happen, it makes you do it again and again.

so yeah, if you’re young, listen to this. Read on the road. and if you’re old, try and remember what it’s like to be young. . Read it. But that’s my answer.

[00:40:38] Tony Winyard: If people want to find out more about you, where would they go?

[00:40:42] Dan Roberts: they, I guess like everyone else that I’ve got a website,danrobertsgroup.com. If you head over there, I have all kinds of free resources. I’ve got a really interesting course I wrote about a year ago called High Performance Living, which is a 30 day online course completely for free. I think that’s worth checking out because, Obviously we do slightly different things, but I think it’s very aligned with the way you talk about, from what I’ve heard in your podcasts and reading your blogs, it’s definitely aligned with what you talk about.

So I think your listeners will probably, enjoy that and I think it’ll resonate with that about how to look after your body and how to look after your mind. so I think that’s, yeah, I think that’s worth checking out.

[00:41:20] Tony Winyard: I’ll put your links to all of that in the show notes.

[00:41:22] Dan Roberts: buddy.

[00:41:23] Tony Winyard: So anyone looking,

[00:41:24] Tony, let me ask you a question?

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[00:41:24] Dan Roberts: Let me ask you, you’ve asked me questions. Let me ask you a question. so Go on with your work, what’s your, with your podcast, you’ve done so many podcasts. Do you have a, did you have a clear plan at the start of when you did your podcast or has it evolved? So

[00:41:38] Tony Winyard: Yeah. Oh, it’s evolved very much.

[00:41:40] Dan Roberts: me about it.

what’s the

[00:41:41] Tony Winyard: initially, The first hundred episodes, it was called Exceeding Expectations.

[00:41:46] Dan Roberts: Okay.

[00:41:47] Tony Winyard: And then it was, yeah, it was very different. I was talking to people who had the mindset of just loving to surprise people and give them far more than they thought they were going to get.

[00:42:00] Dan Roberts: And so I spoke to many authors, speakers, just people I found who just loved to… To surprise people in a really good way and just like over deliver to such an extent that it just amazed people. So that was the first 100 episodes. The next 25 episodes, I changed the name again, so then it became sort of Series 2, I suppose.

[00:42:26] Tony Winyard: And then it was called Happiness vs. Flourishing. And you talked about Buddhism, I got quite into sort of Stoicism. There’s a lot of crossover between Buddhism and Stoicism. And one of the things about Stoicism, Aristotle and Socrates and many of the Stoics, Always used the word eudaimonia, which is like an ancient Greek word.

And it’s often badly translated as happiness into English and it’s not happy. There isn’t a word really you can translate it to, but flourishing is probably as close as it gets.

[00:42:56] Dan Roberts: Yeah.

[00:42:57] Tony Winyard: So I was actually looking at what is the difference between happiness and flourishing and I was interviewing, I was having conversations with people around that kind of concept.

[00:43:05] Dan Roberts: So how would you define flourishing?

[00:43:08] Tony Winyard: that’s the thing. Flourishing is something that you can be living a good life and you’re happy, you’re not happy all the time, because that’s ridiculous, no one’s happy all the time, but You’re enjoying life, you’re trying new things, and you’re, it’s the, as I say, it’s close to eudaimonia, it’s not quite the same, but it’s not happiness.

It’s not just trying to be happy all the time because that’s a pointless

[00:43:32] Dan Roberts: Yeah, it’s a very odd thing to strive for happiness. It’s just 70 many percent. I just wanna be happy. it’s like it’s such an odd thing, so you can’t really grasp it. It just happens when you’re doing something else. Usually more meaningful. Or try, that it’s like the Maslow’s hierarchy needs when you try and aim for that self-actualization or you aim for, flourishing or whatever, like being, fulfilling your potential I guess in some way in life.

then you get all moments of happiness, which is nice, but it’s, yeah, I agree. It’s very odd thing to strive for.

[00:43:57] Tony Winyard: Yeah, so that was the series two. Series three was habits and health, and then series four just started a few months ago. yeah. The art of living proactively.

[00:44:07] Dan Roberts: And what’s, do you think it’s gonna change again? Or we Are we gonna stick with this?

[00:44:12] Tony Winyard: Almost

[00:44:12] Dan Roberts: Okay.

[00:44:14] Tony Winyard: Almost certainly. I have no idea how it will change, but it will probably change at some point. I’ll suddenly have a new inspiration, I think, ah, okay, maybe I could do that, And a lot of the people I talk to, it’s just scratching my own itch, it’s people I find fascinating for some reason.

And I just thought, okay, let me have a conversation with that person. And people seem to like listening to it.

[00:44:36] Dan Roberts: Yeah, it’s,I’ve got a podcast and it’s quite nice. It’s like it gives me an excuse just to talk to people I want to talk to occasionally , so I’m not like you, I just do episodes every so often, but we’ve got quite a lot of followers and just randomly, if I’ve got someone I want to talk to, I’ll just contact them and it’s it’s quite nice sometimes just to have a conversation.

But yeah, I don’t do it. Properly like you do. I do it like once every three, four weeks just when I’ve, fancied having a chat with someone, , but like today, . But, no, I’m very impressed how how regular it works. it’s so hard to be consistent, in anything in life. God, it’s really difficult.

So I’m, I am very impressed. It’s, it’s great work you’re doing.

[00:45:11] Tony Winyard: Cheers. Much appreciated. listen, we’re just about to finish Dan, but before we do, so how we usually end is I always ask, is there a quotation that resonates with you for any reason? I

[00:45:23] Fave quote

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[00:45:23] Dan Roberts: yeah. God, I think, I hope I’m not wrong. I think this is Voltaire. I may be wrong. The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. And I like that. Pretty self-explanatory because it’s about the way we see things. If you really wanna have an adventure, yeah, you could get a one-way ticket to Lima, but actually what’s more adventurous is by open your eyes and seeing the world in a new way by staying open-minded.

That’s the real adventure in life. That’s why I like that Voltaire quote.

[00:45:52] Tony Winyard: haven’t come across that one before, but yeah, that’s,

[00:45:55] Dan Roberts: You can keep that.

[00:45:56] Tony Winyard: a. It reminds me of what, sometimes you have a conversation with people and they’ll talk to you about, especially, I’ve been to about a hundred countries, similar to what you were saying, I lived in many countries, and the question I get asked so much, and I probably, you probably get asked the same thing, Oh, what’s your favorite country?

And I, it’s not, I always say, I can’t really answer that, because I love, there’s probably ten questions I could reel off that I absolutely love. But for me, it’s not about the country, it’s about the experience I was having with the people. And I could have had that same experience in a completely different

[00:46:29] Dan Roberts: and you can go back to the same country like three times. You can go with a partner. You can go with friends, you can go by yourself, completely different experience. So it’s no, it’s, you’re right. It’s a very, it’s very odd question, but yeah, I get that a lot. So I’m pleased you get annoyed by it too. Alright buddy. pleasure. Thank you for having me on. Been a real pleasure. Nice chatting with you and good luck with your, all your endeavors. Thank

[00:46:51] Tony Winyard: the same to you. .

Tune in next week for another enlightening episode of the art of living proactively. I’ll be speaking with Vikki Jones, breathing expert, who is using her knowledge to help long COVID sufferers. Vicki will share her incredible story of recovering from breaking her neck while surfing. Only to later contract COVID-19, which left her with debilitating long-term symptoms. She’ll explain how learning proper breathing techniques through the oxygen advantage program has been a lifesaver in managing her illness. Vikki’s now paying it forward by teaching customized breathing exercises to others struggling with long Covids myriad of symptoms. She’ll provide powerful insights into taking control of your health, when traditional medicine fails you. It’s an inspirational tale of overcoming adversity with grit and determination. Don’t miss this breath of fresh air. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share this podcast. And remember to leave your comments on our YouTube channel. Stay tuned for an uplifting conversation with the remarkable Vikki Jones. That’s next week.