Dr Mike Mew

Jingle 0:00

habits in health episode 60. Welcome to the habits and health podcast, where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. Brought to you by an educator and coach for anyone who wants to create a healthier life. Here’s your host, Tony Winyard.

Tony Winyard 0:21

Welcome to another edition of habits and health, the podcast where we give you ideas on different ways to improve your behaviour around health and into to instal some new habits that are going to help you more. Today my guest is Dr. Mike Mew. he qualified as a dentist in the Royal London hospital in 93. And began working in orthodontics, and we’re going to explore his journey and some of them the problems he’s faced along the way in the industry, and where he would like the direction he would like things to go. So let’s coming up with Dr. Mike Mew. And I think you might get a lot of value from this, especially if you’ve got young children. And if you have, please do share the episode with other people who you think could really benefit from some of the wisdom that Mike shares. So right now it’s time for this week’s episode. habits and health. My guest today is Mike Mew, how’re you doing, Mike?

Dr Mike Mew 1:16

Very well, thank you.

Tony Winyard 1:17

And where are you, Mike?

Dr Mike Mew 1:20

I based in South London in a town called early below Croydon. But on the bottom he is where London meets the countryside.

Tony Winyard 1:29

And how would you describe what it is that you do?

Dr Mike Mew 1:34

Okay, well, by profession, I’m an orthodontist. I’m trying to modify the way faces grow and develop, and then possibly try and modify them once they’ve grown.

Tony Winyard 1:48

Right? And how can we because I know your father started some quite pioneering work in this field many years ago, and you’re sort of continuing his work. Is that Is that a fair? Description?

Dr Mike Mew 2:04

Yeah, very fair description. And in a way, these were started, in part by observations that my father made on the work of my grandfather. And my Frank grandfather certainly set the seed. But he wasn’t such an enquiring inquisitive man, as my father was

Tony Winyard 2:22

right. And what was it that your father was doing that was so different to the prevailing, you know, to the rest of the industry?

Dr Mike Mew 2:30

Well, he was trying to treat the causes of the problem. So he was trying to find out why teeth are crooked. And try and go to the cause, the lowest level cause and seeing if he could affect that. Right. And he came to some interesting conclusions. Some, you know, you don’t always know when your head on a quest where it’s going to end. And I don’t think in his wildest dreams, he thought it was going to be this encompassing.

Tony Winyard 3:08

What would it mean it problems he encountered

Dr Mike Mew 3:13

resistance from established viewpoints?

Tony Winyard 3:18

And why was that?

Dr Mike Mew 3:20

Because he came to some very different conclusions. It’s a it’s one of those situations where the alternative viewpoint is in opposition to the new suggested viewpoint. In this case, it’s whether the problem is caused by the environment or genetics.

And previously, we’ve treated well, currently today, we treat crooked teeth as a genetic issue. We’re treating it mechanically. And it’s something it’s a mechanical solution, you use a mechanical solution if you have a genetic cause. So if something grows like that, that’s how it’s going to grow. Nothing you can do about it. It’s genetic. So we’re going to fix it, we’re going to correct it with mechanics. And my father and me, were suggesting and I mean, we have more or less all the evidence. So we’re very scientifically founded, that it’s not genetic environment. crooked teeth, is a environmental problem. And it’s not just crooked teeth. So it’s why I’m saying that crooked teeth are a symptom of faces not growing correctly. Yeah. And suddenly, as I start saying that, that starts to give you some idea how income says, Man, so I’m saying if you’ve got crooked teeth, your face hasn’t grown properly. And I’m going beyond that. And the assumption that we’ve made that is clearly true, is that very, very few modern humans get correct facial development and growth. You compare our ancestors. To us, it’s almost like we’re different species. And there is no evidence that there’s been any genetic change over this period. All the evidence and good evidence suggests this is environmental change. And of course, once you start working your way back to the, the cause what is clear and obvious is that crooked teeth is only one symptom of the way faces are not growing correctly.

Tony Winyard 5:57

The thing that confuses me is I’ve seen mentioned in in books like James Nestors Breathe and Robert Lustig, Metabolical and many other books. And obviously, yourself talking and many other orthodontists. Now I’ve had some people on my show like Bill Hang, and John Roberts, all saying very similar things. And with so much archaeological evidence, and I find it strange how people can dispute it.

Dr Mike Mew 6:26

You can’t dispute it, you can ignore it. That’s the only thing that you can use. So the what’s thrown back at me all the time? Is this response, you have no evidence proving? Right? Now, that’s a really difficult, you know, it’s basically it’s the evidence stick beat me with the evidence stick beat me beat me beat me. It’s just so easy to sit at the top of your ivory tower, and draw up the drawbridge and say, Well, you can’t come in until you’ve got the evidence. And I think okay, all right, let’s think about the scientifically that all foremost of the quality. Research in respective peer reviewed journals, clearly demonstrates that the way faces grow, and malocclusion crooked teeth, is due to the environment is this disassociation, between how we evolved to live and how we are living. And that’s clear and obvious, so that you don’t need the evidence. But my profession refuses to engage in any debate on any level on the subject. They’re saying. So when they say show me the evidence, they want me to do something different. They want me to demonstrate that I can effectively treat children so I can come up with a treatment method that makes teeth straight, and it makes teeth straight better than the existing methods. So they so I’m not expected to be able to argue a philosophical argument. Not and you know, that’s, that’s what science is about. Science is about debating a philosophical argument. You know, we’re taught, you shouldn’t engage in research until you’ve exhausted the existing evidence that already there. However, that’s not happening in this scenario. In this scenario, I’m expected to go out and somehow prove that I can treat patients and get a better result than the existing method. Now, there’s a lot of problems here. Because I’m saying it’s the environment was caused, that means I’ve got to change people. Well, it’s really quite difficult to change people. You know, I’m saying that the core mantra of what I’m saying is stand up straight and shut your mouth, because you get good facial growth. Now, that’s not a new idea. But it’s also an idea that’s quite difficult to implement. You know, it’s quite hard to get kids to change that I want to. So I’ve got a real problem in instigating the treatment that I provide. Then, of course, I’m trying to improve facial form. I’m not actually trying to make deeds straight, right? Yeah, we tend to make teeth straighter, but we expect the individual to straighten their own teeth. I don’t like this idea in modern orthodontics that you need to have permanent retention. And I worry that if you do have permanent retention, what you’re doing is you’re forcing teeth into positions that they don’t want to stay in You’re then holding them there, basically forever. And you’re all you’re almost certainly holding teeth out of their balance. And we can hold the teeth out the balance zone, can you hold the bone and gums and supporting tissue? Not really. So I see problems in the long term with doing that. But either ways, I’m I’m relying on young children to align their own teeth, as I improve their facial form. And yet, I have to compete against a system that forces teeth into position. So I’m never gonna win. And also, there’s an old phrase, who makes money, a dietician or a LIFO surgeons, one drives a Ferrari, the other a bicycle, who’s making the real health impact. So changing people doesn’t make money, right? It’s really hard. I mean,

I’ve had to develop a very, very specific skill sets, being able to get down to one on one with children, being very good with my hands. And being able to work out what to do next from first principles, because there’s no no one’s done before. So it’s, you know, it’s really brain taxing, particularly when you realise the most important thing is the child, the individual and what they do. Now, I would love anyone in my profession, to do some comparative research with me. So I take 10 cases, very take 10 cases, we do this prospectively. And we compare the teeth and the faces. I have no doubt no doubt that that just that one piece of research would end the all of this forever. But no one will do that with me. And why don’t why? You know, they’ll show the teeth, but they won’t show the faces. Because there’s a strong concern that when you put fixed braces on people’s mouths, you make it more uncomfortable for them to bite together. They don’t bite together. And you can the faces can lengthen. It doesn’t happen all the time. I’m not gonna say that this happens all the time. But you know, I think that it happens often enough that no one wants to perspectively compare cases with me, including facial images. Because, and I think that we would demonstrate through that, that we are improving facial form. But you know, it’s difficult unless I’m treating twins unless I have massive numbers, unless I have, you know, randomised clinical control trials, and you need big money to do that. Because, you know, how can you afford to do that when I’m struggling to stay alive at the moment? You know, I, I could only do this by working very hard. Taking home, a really modest wage. And taking big risks, you know, I’m risking all the time, everything.

Tony Winyard 13:33

And are there other people with similar views to you in not just in UK, but elsewhere?

Dr Mike Mew 13:40

As well, I don’t think anyone, none of them. Bob, possibly Simon in Australia actually commits to. As as as fundamental as me. You know, a lot of people talk that they kind of believe in these ideas. And they’ll do their orthodontic treatment differently. But more or less, all of them are still using fixed braces. They’re all still following, you know, a much more orthodox approach. I’m me and one or two people around the world. There’s a good Eastern Europeans in Poland. Now we’ve got some sort of, you know, increase, you know, we’ve managed to stimulate quite a few people to work that. Right. And they’re getting some nice results. But it’s been a hard one, efforts and campaigns to try and get people to change.

Tony Winyard 14:42

Why do you think that the orthodontist, dentists are so against this? What is the issue for them?

Dr Mike Mew 14:50

Because it’s a diametrical opposition. Most of them have heard that somehow we’re bad. Very few of them are Really no, what we do is I’ve never had a decent, you know, a quality scientific engagement with any orthodontist ever. You know, I just I call because it upsets them when you start asking these difficult questions about what’s happening, and where’s it going. But the problem is that we think we see things from such opposite points of view. And then we have to come up with this, you know, this very unfortunate topic of refractive orthodontics, the saying that orthodontics can be attractive. And I think every orthodontist knows that it can be and it must have happened to everyone once or twice happened to me when I was in clinical practice, conventional orthodontic practice. And some techniques are far worse than others. And I think every orthodontist knows that. It No, they know that sometimes growth can become unfavourable, and there’s a chance that might have been due to the treatment that were being provided. So you can be retracted, we don’t unfavourable growth is attractive, you know, the face down swings, it gets longer. And this is one of those things that no one wants to admit. And it’s like a little sore that sits there, that you know, we’ve got to talk about it, we’ve got to discuss this, you know, it can’t just be swept under the carpet, I can’t feel bad. Highlighting it in conversation now. And I do feel bad because, you know, I feel like I’m letting the side down even talking about this issue.

Tony Winyard 16:45

And it just seems crazy, the why they would believe that it’s the teeth days genetic, the, you know, the cookie teeth and so on, as you mentioned, and a constriction of the airways and all the other issues that have been caused, it’s, it seems strange why they would have why they would believe that.

Dr Mike Mew 17:07

Um, well, I mean, people like to believe that the way that face grows is genetic. You like that, you know, you think about who you are, you know, that image on your ID, the image on your passport, like that the face that looks back to you, from any mirror that you see. That is you. That’s your, that your idea that, you know, not many people recognise me from my hands, my leg or my fate. They recognise me from my face. Yeah. And people don’t want to believe that that is mutable, that is changeable. It’s almost like their personalities changeable, today are changeable. And I think it’s deep within us to fail at that. That’s just how things are. And the fact that just this is when you know, it’s not true, because watch anyone who has a stroke, and you’ll see one side of the face fall down. And remember, that is only the surface muscles. I’ve seen someone who’s had a road traffic accident, where the core muscles, you know, the power muscles of the jaw, or cups. And I remember visiting, you know, when I worked in hospital and visiting this guy, it seemed like he was changing daily is really quite profound. When you cut the D power muscles, but even a stroke, you know, you get a large change in facial format happens predictably relatively quickly. And it’s, you know, you you see change, so you know, faces change.

Tony Winyard 18:51

And you’ve done work. You mean, you mentioned about twins? What can you tell us about some of the work that you’ve done with twins and

Dr Mike Mew 18:57

well, my father did work with twins. And he did work where he treated one twin didn’t read the other twin or found a set of twins, where one was having orthodontics the other wasn’t and he had this mismatch, I think, you know, yeah, why eight sets of twins. But you know, this this pot, this paper has just been ridiculed by the establishment. They just say, Oh, these are twins. There’s not a high enough number. And you go, Well, each twin is an interesting case. And they just say, No, it’s not. And that’s it. You know, you know, he’s done lots of interesting research and people have turned around and say, Oh, that’s not interesting. Some of the brilliant work done by Herbold Edvin. hardball, there’s some fantastic research on monkeys. I mean, and these research he did perfectly fit with the greatest schematic that we’ve put together. I mean, absolutely perfectly. And the orthodontic community of SunRype turnarounds are well, they’re monkeys they don’t count. And that’s yet and they move on and no one looks at And I’ve seen similar I saw this review of, you know, for example, I saw a review of the book jaws. So, you know, Sandra Kahn and Paul Eldrick put out this book called JAWS. And they talk about this concept down the line. And at got a you know, I think it was Ackermann along with profit, I think profit was, you know, he died soon afterwards, I don’t think profit really contributed. But there’s Dr. Ackerman put this article out, basically discredited the book Jaws saying, Oh, we’ve been here before we’re sorry. He completely untrue. It just making it up. Just words put together that just on true, what he says is not correct. And he goes on to say, Oh, we’ve been here before, more fully you’ve for not realising where you’ve been before. So you fall in the same trap? And he says, some brilliant pros, to validate no one else have a look at it. But what he says is incorrect. It’s false, false Facilis.

Tony Winyard 21:11

So all I mean, when I talked before about, are there any places where they are maybe more open to this? And you talked about, like Poland and so on? I mean, so are there do you think, is there any likelihood likely that of any countries being more receptive to sort of adopting these techniques, I guess,

Dr Mike Mew 21:32

telling you, I don’t think that’s the way it’s gonna go. The main problem here is that the grounds not saying still, my grandfather was taught in the 1920s, that if you didn’t have space between all of the upper incisors for a half crown, at the age of four or five years old, you are going to have problems later in life. Now, a half crown is about two millimetres, that means just between the upper incisors not going further, then you’ve got 5,000,006 millimetres of space. Now, I never see that. We’ve never seen that child ever. Right? Now from with the language, you pick up reading what I’m Harold Chapman, that was the professor teaching us the time. Reading his language is quite clear that this was rare. You know, this wasn’t a common event. Now, that wasn’t common in the 1920s. Not to have that much space. And it’s now almost unheard of, to have that much space. And we’re now 100 years later. So in 100 years, we’ve seen a phenomenal change. You know, there’s a lot less space for teeth. And of course, 100 years ago, most people were having their wisdom teeth working in function. Now, very few people do. And people are having other teeth taken out. And of course, the space is clearly decreasing. Now, that’s a space for your tongue. was sitting sleep apnea going up at this alarming rate? I mean, I think those two are related together. But again, you know, whenever I talk, try to to talk to sleep groups. Well, they’re too busy putting CPAP ‘s on people. And they’re fixing it, it seems to me, I draw these parallels but the orthodontists are too busy putting fixed braces on people. You know, they’re they know what, why do they need to worry about the cause, because they can fix that in 100 years, we’ve seen a marked increase a sea change in the amount of underlying problem going on here. Just as we’ve seen crooked teeth, we say sleep apnea and a whole host of these problems related to the head, you know, end problems, deviated nasal septums glue air sinusitis, and or you know, had needing adenoids and tonsils removed, you know that every single one of us is going up and exponential, right? All of them going up exponentially. Now, if you go back what I noticed when I go further, Eastern Europe, is people’s faces are bad. They have nicer faces. And of course, faces that grow well look nice. And if anything has held this subject back is that people think we’re just making pretty faces. And is the thing me saying faces that look good? work well. So of course you can see someone who looks good because you can appreciate that because they look nice. What what what is that looking nice? Well, that’s a fact you can tell a face that grows well. You’re attracted to people of major grow well, because there’s this app that outward is their CVs their health is your face. As you go further east, you can see faces a square, they’re growing better. At the moment, well give that another 1020 years, where’s it going to be? In we’ve made such a decrease on social, you know, decreasing, you know, things have got worse so quickly in 20 years, or 100 years, but the last I would imagine, if I was a gambling man, I would set that that’s not a straight line over the 100 years is increasing, is going up exponentially. And just give it you know, give it 1020 years, and I bet you faces in Eastern Europe won’t look as good. And it goes all of a sudden, we’ve gone from that me making a medical comment to me making this what people would call a a subjective, emotional. And, um, you know, this is the problem, how your face grows to be healthy, is related to how it looks and how nice it looks. And I you can’t get away from that. Sorry. That’s a fact. And that’s an emotive fact is probably one of the most emotive facts there are. You know, none of the orthodontist will ever show their face their facial outcomes to me, because they say, oh, it’s confidential. So under the cloak of confidentiality, I think there’s problems. Problems are being hidden.

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Tony Winyard 26:59

A few minutes ago, you refer to people, you know to people being given CPAP ‘s and so on. And what why is that an issue? Or why is that not correct is the way to solve it.

Dr Mike Mew 27:12

Okay, so let me approach this by just saying that cook a we think crooked teeth is one symptom of faces that don’t grow well. And clearly you don’t so go back a taiko back 10,000 years. Okay. And we look like a different species. We have these huge wide dental arches. So you know, the Arch has had you know, the shape of your teeth, your teeth on an arch. And these affected today we’ve got incredibly narrow arches are our ancestors had these huge wide arches, they always had their wisdom teeth working in function, usually with a centimetre or more space behind their wisdom teeth. Now we’ve got to the point where, where you can say by the end of the mediaeval period, nearly everyone who had wisdom teeth, now less people with a suitcase. But they have been working in function, and the teeth more or less straight. Now we’re gone the situation where most people don’t have space for wisdom teeth, and a lot have extra teeth being taken out. Well, of course, how much space for the tongue have we got? Because the space for the tongue is the inside of the dent large. Now we tongues are dropping into airways because there’s not enough space. And it seems to me that this is the cause of sleep apnea. It will make absolute sense. Unfortunately, when you as you become an adult, it’s hard to change faces. You can’t it’s very hard work. You know, I believe I you know, I fundamentally believe it were you to effectively change your habit. You could, but most people don’t. For all goodwill in the world. They don’t. I’m impressed by these mirrors, but it’s usually mirrors under 25. And it’s amazing to look at some mirroring results. These guys really focus and they change their facial form. But what you do see is that according to the surgeons, the gold standard for treating Sleep apnea is by maxillary surgery to move the face up and forward to gain an upswing in facial form to achieve exactly what we’re trying to do. So, if you have the surgical correction, it is to move the face up and forward. Creating space for the tongue. Now mewing Okay, well, I put a lecture covering what I’m saying now on why I was invited to a lecture it was a lecture by something called I think the 21 convention This was for pre pubescent young men. I mean, other lectures up there were on people who are pickup artists, I have no idea what that was till I tell that after I’d given the lecture, I was looking at the other lectures on the site. I was, you know, I shouldn’t have done the lecture, anyone who would be giving me advice would say, oh, stay away from that group. Anyway, I was naive. I gave this lecture. And I was swamped, swamped off that I was, you know, with the kids afterwards, or the electrodes I finished, like to the whole audience came back to talk to me. And they’re all saying, so how can I make my face better? And I was, I, you know, I’ve given up much more theoretical lecture, talking about what I how I intervene with treatment and what I do. But it was clear from the content of the lecture, that what I was saying was that anyone who changes their habits can change their facial form. And we know that’s true. And I’ve had a few lectures on up already. I think soon afterwards, while I was explaining to my patients how to improve their swallowing, because rather than me saying it, every time I put a video up, makes more sense. And these videos went viral, but not so much the videos actually, I think people will come copying the content. And talking about it on various chat sites, I mean, apparently, the author tropic Reddit site, I can’t I can’t get my head around read it. But I know there is one I know it’s huge. And I have a huge following. It’s, it’s vast. I, you know, I, I just the other day, I Googled, I think the top 20 YouTube videos on mewing and associated things, and there was loads of people with more than a million, you know, up to 10 million hits, where they’re talking about what I’m saying.

And apparently, this is only the tip of the iceberg, because you go to China, Japan, South America, and India. And a lot of these places where there’s huge communities and other languages that are we don’t speak vast communities. And the thing is, it works. And it goes back to basically the same thing. I’m saying that the good my core mantra, stand up straight and shut your mouth. Is is this isn’t rocket science. But these kids have basically taken this idea and kicked it out the ballpark. And then they post images of themselves gaining change. And it blows me away that changes their game. You know, you see this kid from Kazakhstan, who’s got, you know, an abnormal face, you know, a long face, you know, he looks like a horse or something. And he then posts a side by side photograph where he’s got this chiselled jaw. And it just blows my mind what they’ve achieved. I don’t know how many I mean, there’s enough photographs, but there’s enough people doing it. Because when I see that type of structural change on someone, I’m thinking, Oh, you must have gained a lot of health benefit. You know, basically faces the right shape. Works well. You know, you see these you know, we’ve got the kitsch COEs brothers in Kiev, hitting the headlines at the moment. They look more like our ancestors look like. We’re all I mean, all of us, genetically programmed to be a bit more like them. And not like more like them even, you know, all more solid faces. If you grew up on an ancestral diet. That’s how you’d be with perfectly straight teeth. Never seen an orthodontist never seen a dentist. See all these indigenous people. Some guy walks off the African Serengeti, the Australian Outback, or the Brazilian rainforest. And they stand beautifully. They’ve got a chiselled face with great bone structure. Big broad smile, all 32 teeth in place. Never seen an orthodontist. Don’t wear retainers. And what’s interesting Lee they look more like your ancestors than you do. They look just like your ancestors. You know all our ancestors had perfectly straight teeth go back 10,000 years, every single one of them very rare for them to be missing a tooth or teeth to be small to medium strength. And they look surprisingly similar

Tony Winyard 35:03

I know you’ve you’ve released the mewing app. And I downloaded the app.

Dr Mike Mew 35:07

No, no, no. Can’t download the mewing app. There is no mewing app.

Tony Winyard 35:12

There is because I’ve got the app and I’ve been using it.

Dr Mike Mew 35:17

A mewing app on a phone? Yeah.

Tony Winyard 35:21

It’s, called mewing. Yeah. I’ve been using it for the last 4 weeks

Dr Mike Mew 35:26

It’s not released

Tony Winyard 35:29

Well, there is one available,. Ah, okay. Interesting. Because, I heard you talk about a mewing app

Dr Mike Mew 35:42

I’m totally unaware anyone’s out there. But you know, I’m an orthodontist. I’m not a businessman. We’re getting that. We’re, we’re talking about it that way. You know, I hope you were finishing it up fairly soon. And we’re going to get it out. Right. And when when I’ve, you know, I, I never cease to be amazed at other people’s efforts to do exercises on the meat of the mewing app you’ve got there is that but it’s not got me on it?

Tony Winyard 36:08

No, it just gives videos of exercises. And as I said mewing checklist and videos of exercises with who on it is is a video of just someone it’s not don’t say who the person is?

Dr Mike Mew 36:27

Well, it’s a free world in a way, you know, I can’t not miss because it’s helping promote me.

Tony Winyard 36:34

On mewing, so are there to your knowledge, are there many people doing on a daily basis that have managed to, like older people say that have managed to?

Dr Mike Mew 36:42

I don’t know, I mean, you know, my day is a busy day. You know, I just I’ve worked myself hard. And I don’t have time to spend time on the internet, attempting to check these things out.

Tony Winyard 37:01

Right? So are you only working with children or you’re not working with adults,

Dr Mike Mew 37:06

we’re starting to work towards slightly older adults, and we’re getting some interesting results. It’s just that it’s really hard work to do research, and having a research establishment, privately funded. Particularly when you know, it’s all on a profit. I don’t have any donations, I don’t have anything, you know, aiming to help me move this forward. It’s all through the income we generate in the clinic.

Tony Winyard 37:40

So is the but is it the majority of people you work with children?

Dr Mike Mew 37:46

The majority yes, certainly is a majority. I mean, we have a lot of interest from adults. So I have to kind of hold them back in a way so that we can select the right ones, because this is a magnet for people who are fascinated about their faces. And you know, think somehow, you know, you see what I’m saying they fear the theory of it. And they see this could be some easy ride where they can turn up here, and I will make them better. Right? This is one of the big problems I see in medicine. You know, with more if I got if I went out onto the street today, and I got wrecked hit by numb, you know, double decker, red London bus, I would have injuries that 100 years ago, I would have had a 95% chance of dying from today with modern medicine, I have a 95% chance of surviving. Now, that’s quite impressive. That’s, um, you know, a miracle of modern science. Or, you know, with the anaesthetics, antibiotic antibiotics, we’ve got knowledge of bacteria and the infective process we’ve got, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s incredible what we’ve achieved with modern medicine. And, you know, sometimes I think we need to remember that, because there are a lot of alternative health groups who say, I think sometimes belittle the achievements that’s been happened in modern medicine. However, if you have a chronic disease, well, I think it’s about time, modern medicines, you know, hospitals, put their hands up, and they said, well, actually, we’re struggling here. We’re looking but you know, has anyone else got any bright ideas? We haven’t got all the answers for these things. And it’s, you could say that a lot of these chronic diseases are related to the disjunct between how we evolved to live an How are we all living? And is our lifestyles are making us ill? Yeah. Now, that comes back to your mission here, you know, habits. Because it’s our habits, it’s our lifestyles that are causing these problems. And in reality, we have to change. That’s the answer. Yeah. So you’ve got people coming on to me, and they can understand the philosophy of what I’m saying. But as hard as they think they need to change. They don’t we’ve got this concept in our heads doctor made me better, here’s the money, I’ll make you back. So it’s not you know, people don’t understand the the effort and hassle that they have to go to, to make themselves better.

Tony Winyard 41:02

Do you think that what is the prospects are some new young people coming into the industry? Taking on your approach in the next few

Dr Mike Mew 41:11

years, the moment right now as it stands very little? Because you know, it’s, it’s a high icon. It’s like, my profession just doesn’t want to know. You know, it’s, it’s interesting, my father came out. So he he started in the, I think, the 50s, trying to ask for debate on white days of rocket, you know, the, as I’ve done, just preparing the normal roots of science. But the profession didn’t want to know and he carried on he was, you know, at the time, he was one of the the golden boys of orthodontics, the blue eyed boys coming up, and he then everyone burned their bridges with him, as he became more and more and more focused on the truth, and realising that the thing wasn’t set up to find answers. It was set up. You know, I don’t sound bad saying this of my profession. It seems to be more set up to for the benefit of the profession, not the benefit of the patient. And, you know, I, you know, it pains me to say that, but it just is the power, it seems. And it didn’t, you know, all you had is about So then my father got to the point where he went on dispatches channel for programme in about 1998, where he said, he really thought that orthodontics can damage facial foam. You know, this is the big thing that no one wants to talk about that, either. I’m just mentioning this on the radio with you. I know about that. You know, people are very Oh, you know, it’s not the done thing. It’s not, you know, it’s not what you’re supposed to do. Anyway, he went on dispatches. And his reputation was shredded. He was completely ostracised from the profession. That still hangs on today. And yet, no one ever asked him what he meant. No one came to him and said, Oh, what is your cons? Okay, to try and validate this concern, let’s address it, let’s engage with you on what your concern is. No, they didn’t do that. No one looked into it. They interestingly, they also don’t profession suddenly did quite a lot of research to demonstrate that they didn’t damage faces. But they looked at a completely different aspect. They you know, that what they did was they took this this controlled area of potential facial damage and focused on that, and clearly demonstrated that, you know, they probably didn’t cause any damage that night, but completely different from what you were saying completely, fundamentally different. And they never engaged with him. And but then, of course, they say to him, show your cases, show show, show where you go. And of course, he is difficult to demonstrate. Because it’s so easy to take someone in complete isolation, ask them produce evidence and say, well, that’s not good enough. You don’t have any. You know, that analogy I was saying earlier on, you know, raw, you know, the idea was sciences, you come up with an idea that’s tested with existing research and you go on to set up an experiment and do it. And of course, it does not happening in the profession. What happens in that person, they say, oh, show me a result. So people are interested, show me your results, which is complete nonsense, scientifically. But it’s so easy just to dismiss someone’s results alone. That’s not good enough. And, and we will move on, but it seems that the The under the word of the orthodontic the members of the orthodontic community who have influenced the entire dental community based on their position really They’ve said no, no move along. There’s nothing going on here. And if I talk to mine go and meet dentists, Dentist go, they just roll their eyes when they hear my name is like a like I’m proved wrong before I open my mouth. And everyone knows malocclusions genetic. Everyone knows that. And it’s just thing. You look at a profession that’s holding things completely untrue. As true, and the reason none of the profession listened to us is not because they were scientifically wrong. No, it’s because they’re make the orthodontist, the centre. And that carries the weight.

Tony Winyard 45:52

You know, something interests me, kind of related to some of what you’re saying. I was reading a book I’m reading at the moment. It’s called Metabolical by Robert Lustig. And he was talking about, in the states and UK and certain other countries. I think he talked about Australia. The the, there was a period where dentists were telling patients you shouldn’t take you shouldn’t eat sugar shouldn’t consume sugar. That was like the biggest problem. And then that was stopped. And but in poor countries, that still happens because they don’t have the money for for dentists. And they’d given the advice not to consume sugar is how the importance of it, but not in places like the UK and US and Australia. Do you have any any thoughts on that as to why that is?

Dr Mike Mew 46:44

Okay, well, I’m seeing a slightly different pattern, because I tend to treat people who are in the educated and slightly alternative world. And I’ve seen the sugar now go down. So I don’t see decay in my the patients I treat. So I would say it’s for me, it seems to be this wave that as you start becoming wealthier in your country, you start getting this in increasing sugar. And then it decreases as you get more educated further down the line. And I so the peep the people I see decay in the people coming from Eastern Europe. Okay. So people have come in from, I don’t don’t want to call it God was less developed, but they haven’t been developed for as long. So I’m seeing a slightly different pattern. Because of course, I’m seeing sugar, one of the you know, the culinary of eating too much sugar is decay, particularly decay in childhood teeth. I don’t know what the the actual volume of sugar being consumed in the lifetime is. But with with could cut teeth, there seems to be this nice, even parallel with the less developed country is the more of straighter the teeth. And the better facial form there is. You know, you you, you can draw some fairly simple parallels. It’s not always the way because you know, you’ve got big areas like China and India, the attain quite a high standard of living 1000 years ago, you know, they they went into a modern standard of living 1000 years ago, and then stayed, I think, slightly more static while Europe then overtook, and now they’re catching up. So that’s it, they’re not a straight line, parallel linear pattern, you see that? But you know, it’s it’s, it’s, it would be a great area of research. I would love to spend time looking at this and people like cortini have, and it’s yeah, it’s amazing that there’s such good quality research out there just being ignored, because it doesn’t fit the actual clinical practice. And on my worry, as clinical practice is determining the treatment being provided, which is the worst case scenario. You asked me I don’t see any young young minds coming into this not until November. So November, I have a court case. So the powers that be have are trying to nail me up and they’re trying to properly nail me up with some court cases. So I’m going to be taken to court to the general dental Council. And of course, this will be the big deciding line. You know, I think that after that court case, I think we will see a very different position. But the fact that I’ve got to go through the stress of it is just like I said to you when we started this last night was a bad night. It just, you know the I’ve got Crohn’s disease as well, which is a chronic health related condition stress related condition. This is killing me. I mean, it’s really, really having major impacts on my health, and my mental and physical health as well. You know it this is really, really tough. And all I’m doing is asking for the debate on the, you know, I spent, I did a six year letter writing campaign asking for everyone, you know, members of parliament, the Gen four chairs of the general dental Council. You know, anyone who was anyone I just said to them, we need to debate on why teeth crooked. And we got, I got nowhere. I think it’s crazy. I’m saying listen, and clearly, that we’re treating 30% of the population in this country, in what is really quite a invasive made of fixed braces, just because everyone has them don’t think that these things are benign. Don’t think having teeth out is benign. But all I’m asking for is a debate on why our teeth crooked. You know, as I said, you know, here’s a phone, you know, holding up my iPhone. Alright, this has been achieved by the scientific process. Be careful when you stop the scientific process, particularly in medicine. You know, all I’m asking for is debate. And, you know, and no one seemed I cannot believe how my professional interest

it just, it makes me numb just to think that. And hopefully, they’re going to be interested because now they’re actually taking me to court. And of course, as luck would have it, you know, I put these videos up. I now have this big following on YouTube. I now, you know, I can actually get I can get traction when I say things. And if it wasn’t for that, you know, I don’t know if you would have found out about me?

Tony Winyard 52:12

Well, Mike, if people want to find out more about you, and your you know, as you progress towards this situation, you know, at the end of the year, what’s the best way for them to find out about you?

Dr Mike Mew 52:24

Well, I guess go to my YouTube channel, you know, author Tropix YouTube channel. I mean, yeah, yeah, you know, it would be good. I mean, we’re just starting to launch a campaign, we’re going to try and get, um, we’re going to start trying to raise funds to help me fight this court case. You know, I, my, my insurer provided in, you know, lawyers that just wanted me to keep absolutely quiet and it storm and I think approaches, I believe in completely the wrong way. And so I’ve had to go and get my own insurance. Um, you know, I wanted to buy a house, I sold my first house just to fund what I’m doing now. I was gonna buy another house, basically, the phones that my sister and my brother in law had made for me by developing properties. And I’m now in the blue most of that. I mean, literally, I’ve had to focus my entire life just I don’t get paid much. I don’t know. You know, sometimes wonder why the hell we do these things. But someone’s got to do it because we have to have the truth. Yeah. This is everyone in the world’s faces. It’s a fundamental element of their health, a face that doesn’t have a face that isn’t the right shape doesn’t work correctly. You know, sleep apnea, crooked teeth, forward, head postures, jaw joint problems, all of these other end things from you know, adenoids, tonsils, glue ear, sinusitis, deviated nasal septum, all of these things, something is happening, our ancestors didn’t have this, we need to do something. And we start with the cause. You know, my profession has no idea what causes it, what the epidemiology is, what the pathological processes are what the cures because permanent retention isn’t clear. And you go to 10 Different orthodontists you’ll have at least 10 If not 20 or 30 different opinions on what to do. That cannot be correct. I just It defeats me well, why no one’s interested in the face level science.

Tony Winyard 54:33

Well, hopefully podcasts like this and can can get you some support with with with some like and I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me and yeah, good luck with the with the case.

Dr Mike Mew 54:48

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Tony Winyard 54:50

Okay, next week, episode 61 with Nicola Singleton, Nicola appeared on BBC One doctor in the house five years To go with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, and has gone from being housebound to recovered from ME, CFS, and fibromyalgia, and we’re going to talk about the journey she went through during that recording of that episode, how long he was able to help her. And what’s happened since then it’s a very interesting story. So that’s Next week, episode 61 with Nicola Singleton. If you enjoyed this week’s episode, please do share this with someone who would get some more value from it. And I hope you have a great week.

Jingle 55:36

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai