This weeks guest is Joe Calloway, speaker and author of several best selling books on customer service and leadership.
Before the interview I read his excellent book “Becoming a category of one” which is discussed a couple of times during the show, and since recording this interview I’ve also read “Be the best at what matters most” which was just as good.
Note: some of the resources below are affiliate links, meaning I get paid a commission (at no extra cost to you) if you use that link to make a purchase. This all helps fund the show costs.
Here are some other books written by Joe
My guest this week is Joe Calloway, author of some fabulous books on customer service. We talk about a book he wrote called “Becoming A Category Of One.” how extraordinary companies transcend commodity, and define comparison and since this episode, I’ve also read another one of his books “be the best at what matters most the only strategy you will ever need.” He gives some great information from his experiences. I hope you enjoy the show.
Well, here we are for another edition of exceeding expectations. I’m truly honoured today to have a man by the name of Joe Calloway. How you doing, Joe?
Joe Calloway: Tony, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on.
Tony: As I said to you before we were speaking off air just before we started recording, and I’m currently listening to an audio book of Joe’s becoming a category of one and it is an absolutely fantastic book. You mentioned this – you wrote this quite a few years ago?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, I did actually. it was my first published book and to this day, Tony it’s sold more copies than anything else I’ve ever written. It’s funny, I was talking about email to a couple of friends this morning. I mentioned that I said, yeah, that first book was the best seller so far. I said, “ Maybe I should have just written that one and declared victory and called it a day and just wrapped it up. I’ve written seven more since then but “becoming a category one” is without question, the one that more people have read. It’s really gratifying that even though I wrote it originally back in 2004, and we updated it in 2010, or 11, I still get a lot of feedback on that book. It’s a real favourite of mine and part of that is because other people seem to like it so that feels pretty good.
Tony: What was it that inspired you to write it in the first place?
Joe Calloway: Well, I had been doing speaking. Speaking at conventions and business meetings, for a long time for about 20 years, before I wrote “becoming a category one.” When you’re in the business of doing a lot of speaking, one of the things that you quite naturally think of is the possibility of, “Gosh, maybe I should write a book about this stuff.”
Really, that first book “becoming a category one”, it was almost like a compilation of the best ideas that I had developed up to that time. They were the same ideas that I used in my speeches and in the workshops with the companies that I worked with it , at their events and at their conventions and meetings. It was almost kind of a greatest textbook. It’s like, Okay, everybody, here’s the best ideas I’ve got. Then the challenge is; well okay, what do you do for the next book? The next and the next. The whole process serves to constantly keep me learning and moving forward and always looking to develop new ideas and new material.
Tony: You mentioned that you’d already been speaking and delivering workshops, and so on before you started that book. How many years had you been doing that, before starting that book?
Joe Calloway: I’ve been doing it for about 20 years.
Tony: Wow! Okay, you build up a lot of stories on that time?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, you get a lot of stories in 20 years. (Laugh)
Tony: I can imagine. Yeah and what was it that got you into that whole arena in the first place?
Joe Calloway: You know, it’s funny, I guess it really came from early. I mean, very early at the very beginning of my career, I worked for about three years in the real estate, business, real estate sales, residential selling homes. I became the sales manager, and then general manager of a very small real estate firm about 12 agents. we had a meeting every morning, Monday through Friday, for 45 minutes. It was my meeting. And my job was to give them ideas that can help them be more successful, because the way I got paid was based on the production of the entire business and so my whole focus was, what can I give to you guys, that will help you be more successful, because ultimately, that will make me more successful. I kind of got, as the saying goes, I got bit by that bug, I really enjoyed that process of finding ideas that were useful to other people, and presenting those ideas in a way that, they could take it and run with it and really make use of it. then I went on my own and just started really cold calling trying to find people, I could do this with in different companies. Very-it’s a tough business to break into. I didn’t make much money at all, for the first couple of three years. I was hanging on, but I was sticking with it and then little by little, I’d get a job and do a good job for the client, and they would talk about it, and other people would hire me. It’s a business that has really been built by positive word of mouth and still is to this day after doing it for over 30 years.
Tony: Where did you go next after the real estate? Did you always stay within that or did you move to other industries?
Joe Calloway: No. I went from real estate straight into being on my own saying to businesses, let me do a presentation for your group on – and I had three or four topics. At the time, they were, “oh gosh, I did one on goal setting, on time management and I did one on assertive constructive communication with people. It was just kind of this variety of topics that I did. what I discovered early on was and I’ve since I ended up writing a book not too long ago, called “magnetic the art of attracting business.” The basic idea in that book, Tony, is that your existing customers are- I don’t care what kind of business you’re in. your existing customers are your greatest possible potential source of new customers, depending on what they say about you. Because now with the internet, if somebody loves you, they don’t just tell three or four people, they might tell hundreds of people by posting on the internet about you. The same is true. If they don’t like you. they could tell hundreds of people or even thousands of people. I’m a great believer in Hello, exceeding expectations, because that’s what drives business success. It’s one of my absolute core beliefs, because that’s what the marketplace tells me is true.
Tony: When you started speaking about all of this, it was obviously before the internet really got as big as now
Joe Calloway: Yes. Way before.
Tony: How has that changed? How is the internet affected- well, what you speak about and the whole general concepts of exceeding expectations and over deliver and so on?
Joe Calloway: You know, it’s interesting, as far as -let me stick for just a second with the word of mouth aspect. I remember, early on, when I was trying to get jobs, people would say, “well, who have you worked for?” What did what did they say? Let me say some testimonials.” I remember I had printed and obviously it was hard copy, then there was no internet. I printed up 100 letters of recommendation that I had gotten over a period of about five years. I would shrink them down so that there were four to a page. If somebody said, “Why should I hire you?” I would hand them this 25 paid set with four letters per page and say, “why don’t you take a look at these and then let’s talk.” It did more than anything to get me work. the thing is, if you tell people that you’re really good at what you do, that won’t go very far. If other people who have bought your service, bought your product, been your customer, if they are telling people how good you are, then that, I mean, that’s the most powerful factoring buying decisions. Now the Internet has affected as it has with so many people, it’s affected everything about my business. I think one of the most obvious ones is speed of communication. One thing I do is I pride myself; it’s become part of my brand, if I get an email from a client or a prospective client, I get back to them immediately. When I say immediately, I mean, when I first opened the email, I read it, and then I start typing back to them a response. I might email back and say, “you know, it’s interesting that you’re talking to me, because just last month, I worked with a group very similar to yours. As a matter of fact, here’s what the CEO of that company had to say and I’m including his email address, in case you might want to get in touch with him or her and see what they think.” yeah the internet has had a huge impact. As we were talking, before we started the show, I do a tremendous amount of research. I’m on the internet, often now all day long, researching the marketplace and looking for good ideas.
Tony: I know that you’ve worked with many different companies, and just from the book I’m reading, yeah, it mentions about some huge companies, you work with. when you go into a company, and you’re delivering a workshop for them, for example, what typically is it a company wants you to help them with?
Joe Calloway: Well normally my- the leads that I respond to come to me, because it’s rare that they haven’t been to my website. They know what I’m about. They know that – for example, Tony, if somebody said, I need a sales trainer, or I need someone who specializes in sales. if they go to my website they’re going to say that’s not what I do. My specialty right now, and it evolves over the years, but right now, everything that I do is around leadership. If you’re looking for something other than leadership related topics, I’m not your guy, but a lot of times, and I would say at least a third of the time. Sometimes Tony, it’s up to half of the leads that I get come to me because somebody read one of my books. Say, “How did you happen to call me?” and She’ll say, “Well, our CEO, read your book, he thinks it’s exactly what we need and so he told me to give you a call.”
Tony: It seems to me your approach to leadership is quite different to the norm from how many other people kind of approach it.
Joe Calloway: One thing that I tried to do with my business is not talked to people about stuff that they already know, inside and out. I’ll tell you what’s interesting, though, having said that, for example, let’s talk about culture, the culture within a company. basically, meaning what’s important? What are your values? How do you behave with each other? With customers and with the marketplace in general, it’s interesting that… the companies that are most eager to learn about building a great culture, more often than not, it’s the companies that are already very good at it. They’ve got a great culture, but they’re smart enough to know that they want to get better.
Joe Calloway: That’s really true across the board. It’s the people in the companies that are good at something that are always the ones that wants to get better. They don’t want to be complacent about it. I’m lucky. I tend to work with people that are very good at what they do. The bonus from that is, I get to learn from them;is that find out about their company and their best practices and in what they do.
Tony: Have you had situations where you have been called into a company where things are just terrible, and there is a lot that needs to be changed?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, I have and (Laughs) a lot of times, that’s not fun. I was called in to do a speech one time for a retail company that was having a very hard time. They were making a lot of drastic cuts within the business. Everybody there- I don’t know, 7-800 people in the audience. They were mad, they were upset. they were mad at the company they were mad at everything. The CEO spoke right before me and during his speech, they were booing, and I’m sitting in the front row getting ready to go on. I’m thinking boy, this is not good. This is not a place that I really want to be. But they showed me a little mercy. I did okay, I got out of it alive.
Here’s the thing, there are no magic formula. there are no – there used to be an old phrase based on a TV Western, called “The Lone Ranger” he had silver bullets and there’s a phrase in business talking about silver bullets that can use to be successful. Well, there are not any secrets of success. If a company or a business is really in serious trouble, it’s going to take a whole lot more than somebody coming in giving a speech, or even a consultant coming in doing their best work to turn a company around. That’s something that takes some fundamental work and very often it might take a change in leadership.
Tony: One of the things I remember reading in “becoming a category of one”, were you were talking about exceeding expectations. You were talking about how now – especially in the last sort of 10 years or so, expectations, typically are just so high from people.
Joe Calloway: Yeah, that’s an interesting challenge. Because in – oh, by the way, people that are- tend to be very successful in business will say that their competition is very good at what they do. People that are struggling are the ones that say, “Well, I don’t have any competition, I’m so much better than my competition. I know that, if I could just convince the market of that, because I’m so much better.” That’s a signal to me that come on, you need to get real, because if your competition was no good, you would own the marketplace, and you’d have all the money. Companies that are already very good at what they do, they look at their competitors, who are already very good at what they do. How do you exceed expectations when the expectations are already high and everybody’s already doing exceptional work?. I’ll tell you what the key is; start to say for a lot of companies. Let me go ahead and say, for most companies, is to go back and look at the basics and say, “Okay, look at let’s look at those things that we kind of take for granted that we say, ‘well, we don’t have to worry about that we’re already doing really well’.”
What I do is challenge them to go back to those things that they are already doing well and say, How could you be 20% better? Let me give everybody listening what may be one of the best kept secrets about succeeding in today’s marketplace that there is, although I said earlier, there are no secrets of success. This one’s really not a secret, either. It’s just that people don’t tend to pay attention to it. Here’s the question I would ask you, how easy are you to do business with? because I don’t care what business you’re in. If the market perceives you, is being the easiest to do business with, the easiest place to buy a car, the easiest service company to have an electrician come and fix your lights in your home, the easiest clinic to see a doctor, the easiest anything, if you’re the easiest to do business with that is a huge advantage in today’s marketplace. I think about that with my business a lot. It’s just one of the constants. One of the ways to exceed expectations is be easier to do business with. make your product or service, easy to understand, easy to use, easy to buy, make your website is- I mean, to where people don’t even have to think if it takes four clicks for somebody to do business with you get it down to three, then get it down to two. It’s a really big deal. It can really help you exceed expectations.
Tony: When you put in that kind of thing across to the companies you’re working with, are they often expecting that they’re going to spend lots of money to over deliver to their customers, when in reality, it’s just the simple things that they need to do.
Joe Calloway: Yeah, that’s the thing, most of the things that can make us more competitive. Now, some of them do, but quite honestly, most of them do not take any – it doesn’t take an expenditure of money, as much as it takes a shift in focus. A lot of times and Tony, I’m as guilty as anybody- guiltier than most people, what do we-if you look at your day, and what you pay the most attention too and what you spend most of your time and effort on, you need to think very carefully at whether you are spending that time and energy on high return activities or whether you’re spending it on distractions one of the things that I have to work on with myself is I Love new ideas. I mean, nobody loves the next idea better than me. what that can cause is for me to take my attention from the execution of my business, and go chasing after a new idea. That could end up just being a distraction and a waste of time. Now, having said that, of course, we all want to be open to new ideas, because we have got to be on the lookout for what the next thing is going to be that will keep us successful. There’s a balance there. I think one of our one of the most common weaknesses, whether it’s a one person business, or a 50,000, employee business is we’re not focused on the most important things. When we do that, then we cease to exceed expectations.
Tony: Again, going back to that book, there were so many stories. when we were talking before we started recording, you spoke about how you’ve been speaking for so long, I think is it what, 30 years now?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, 30 years now.
Tony: You’ve got Well, I God knows how many stories you must have by now. Do you have any particular stories you particularly like about over delivering and how customers have given an amazing experiences to their customers and so on?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, it’s interesting. There’s a guy in Washington DC. This is an interesting example, because it’s a one person business. I’ve used this example, with fortune 500 companies and they, all get it everybody gets the point. This guy did a walking tour of downtown, not downtown, but the White House and Capitol area of Washington, DC. He was listed on “TripAdvisor” which is a lot of your listeners, I’m sure familiar with it. Extremely not bitter travel website, where people can post reviews and this guy ended up being listed as the number one most popular activity of everything in Washington, DC. At the end of the tour, he says to everybody, I hope you enjoyed the tour and if it was-if it was fun for you, if you learn something, then I would appreciate any monetary gesture that you would like to give me. He just let people pay him whatever he wanted. He made a fortune, because he was so good at what he did. All of his business came from people posting reviews. On tripadvisor.com. I mean, every review was a five star review. I called him and said I’d like to write about you in one of my books. He said, Thank you so much. I’m honored, I’m flattered but please don’t, I can barely handle the amount of business I’ve got. It was because he so exceeded every customer’s expectations that he gave him more money than he would have asked for. They all told everybody else in the world, you got to hire this guy for your tour. He’s the best so it’s funny, our little story about a an odd little business but there’s a lot of good lessons in that
Tony: That’s touches upon something else that you commented on earlier that you’re always doing research on, you know, reading lots of different magazines and so on and so are you when?- you’re reading all these different magazines and articles on the net, and so on. Is it purposely looking for those types of stories or you just enjoy reading generally?
Joe Calloway: Well, I enjoy reading generally. I spend a tremendous amount of time on the internet, going to business websites, Business News, websites, and even company websites. I look for trends, look for things that…successful companies and successful people are all starting to do. One of those things, and it goes back to what I was saying earlier, but one of the biggest trends right now is to become more accessible. Which is another way of saying being easier to do business with, I tell you what, if everybody listening, and I would give myself the same advice, if I would go back to say, how much more business could I get? If my business number one were more visible, in my favorite way to do that is through social media, not my meet by me talking about me. Having other people talk about me and being more accessible. One of the things that successful companies, entrepreneurs, individuals in business are doing is they’re making more of an effort -You know, if somebody says, Hey, Tony, that was a great job. I mean, I really happy, and I really appreciate it. Then ask them say, Hey, would you go on? Then pick whatever, you know, social media site or review site, you think that your customers would tend to be fans of? Or would go to and frequent? And say, Would you write a review about me on there?
Then if they do, of course, keep up with it and track it and see if they do if they do, you go back? and thank them, but yeah, I’m looking-what I’m looking for is stories, but stories based in market reality. What is working in the marketplace for businesses today.
Tony: The stories that you include in your book by the stories that are best received when you actually did deliver talks and workshops and so on? Is that how you decide what goes in a book?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, a lot of times, I’ll take a story that I’ve told him in speeches and presentations. yeah, very often, that will make its way into a book. With a book, you got to remember with your speech, you’re only in front of people for 45 minutes or an hour. With a book, you’ve got, you know, a couple of hundred pages that you can really go a lot deeper with actually not just more examples, but you can go deeper with the theory behind it. Idea and why you think it makes absolute sense. Then you can certainly go deeper with each example, that, you know, I mentioned culture earlier, there’s a company that’s a client of mine, Oh, my gosh, they are so good at having a great, great corporate culture. Fortune Magazine, which is most people would say is the number one business magazine, internationally in the world. Fortune Magazine named them now this is just in the United States. Fortune name them the number one place to work. They’ve got three categories, small, medium, and large businesses, fortune said they are the number one place to work in small businesses in the United States. Well, I devoted, (excuse me) I’ve got a brand new book coming out in January, I devoted an entire chapter just to that one company, talking about the things that they do that work so incredibly well for them. Here’s, you know, something that I’ve learned, because of the nature of my work, but it’s true for all of us. People say will where do you find good ideas? My gosh, they are right in front of you. If our tires are just open, the next time you do business anywhere, put on your glasses, looking for ideas, and think what did this company do that I either light or didn’t like? what’s the lesson for me? In my business, your next great idea is after all over the place, if you just keep your eyes open,
Tony: you talked before about the kept me up becoming a category of one and how it’s been so well received over the years since it was first released. In the people would have given you feedback on that book. Have you had any stories along the lines of how it’s really helped someone see things in a different way? Whether that be an individual or company or so on?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, you know, I have. one that just popped into mind was a chapter that I wrote that I think we when we updated the book, I think we left this chapter titled the same? I think it’s called What’s your story? The idea there is basically, what are you about? You know, what is it beyond just transactions? What’s the purpose of what why do we go to work here every day? What are we trying to accomplish? What I wrote about at the time was a company called lens crafters. They had devoted the company to one idea, which was help the world see better, and so on, wrote about lens crafters in the book, and I had actually a number of people over the next few years, contact me and say, you know, that started a discussion with our within our company of Well what’s our story? What’s the- what is the point of us doing this every day, besides making money besides making living? Which is fine? That’s a that’s nothing wrong with that. That’s a noble cause to support yourself and your family. Is there anything in what you do that makes you say, you know, this just feels good, that we’re doing this work? And here’s why. If you can tap into that, it’s a great source of motivation. I mean, to have them had a purpose. Yeah, certainly, I got feedback on that well ingot feedback on all the chapters. I got stories about change early on in the book I talk about when you’re doing change in a company, and whether it’s truly meaningful change. Or if you’re just kind of rearranging the furniture, that guy named so yeah, but you know, it’s interesting how different ideas and different stories, what might be really fascinating to you, the next person might reading go, yeah, okay, whatever, and go on to the next page. You never know what’s going on with people.
Tony: That lens craft a story was so good and for the people who haven’t aren’t familiar with the book, can you just quickly that we count that story for people who are listening?
Joe Calloway: Oh, gosh, I haven’t looked at that story for a while, you may need to jump in and help me. The one thing that I remember and I don’t know, Tony, I don’t know if this actually made it into the book or not. if it didn’t, I want you to tell me the story you’re thinking about so I can talk about it. I was talking with an assistant manager of a lens crafters stores. Now these own retail stores, usually in shopping malls, and they sell eyeglasses. It’s retail and I was talking with this assistant manager. I said, Well, how did you happen to end up with lens crafters? He said, well, you know what, it’s kind of a surprise to me, I never would have thought that I would have ended up in health care. I’m so glad that I did and now thought okay, this is so cool. The guys in a retail store animal, but he sees what he does, is helping people see better, which to him is healthcare. That was a cool story was there anything in particular that you got from both? Because I’d love to comment on it if you did, I mean from that from the lens crafters chapter.
Tony: What it was there were two other stories that you mentioned it was the one where the guy he crushed his glasses at an airport and then they lens he contacted links doctors because honestly but there was something they could do.
Joe Calloway: Yeah.
Tony: There is also the one about the small child as well. So both of those stories.
Joe Calloway: Oh my gosh, the one about the small child and let me start crying I probably had better not tell. Real quick Let me tell you other people getting on a plane, he drops his glasses, one of the lenses shatters. He not may not be getting the story right. long time but this this will get like the same point. He gets in touch with the local lens crafters and they say Where are you going? He says whatever Chicago and they say we’ve got you covered. They call the lens crafter in Chicago closest to the airport, him somebody meets him in the airport with I don’t know if it was an if they actually ground out his exact prescription. Or if they gave him a temporary that was close enough. I know this somebody came to the year port to help him with his glasses. The one about the little baby was it was a child that had would they knew was a fatal disease and was not going to live or a fatal health problem of some sort. Wasn’t going to live terribly long but one of the problems was the child couldn’t they knew the child couldn’t see, just by doing test and a lens crafters, they came up with a special prescription and made a tiny little set of glasses. This is very documented, folks. This is not made up. This was in lots and lots of media outlets. And they put the glasses on the baby and the baby actually saw his mom and dad clearly for the first time and of course smiled and all that. Again, I can’t do it alone. And I’ll just start crying over the home.
Joe Calloway: The point is, it’s a company that had a heart and really had a clear purpose for what we’re doing. It made a big difference.
Tony: The book is so many stories of companies going out of their way to over deliver and just give fantastic experiences to their customers. That’s why I’ve just been enjoying the book so much. It’s a yeah. Anyone listening who isn’t familiar with it, but you really need to go and buy the book. It’s absolutely super, Joe, we haven’t got a lot of time left. Before we finish, you mentioned that you have got a new book coming out in is in January, you said?
Joe Calloway: Yeah, January first
Tony: You want to tell us a little bit about that book.
Joe Calloway: Yeah, it’s called the leadership mindset, how today’s successful business leaders think and it is- looks at a lot of different aspects of what makes for a successful leader today. Really quickly. One is to be able to simplify the complicated. One is I talk a lot about an idea that I’ve talked about and written about for a long time. I get really specific about it in this book, which is to get to have absolute clarity on what it is that I mean, just the two or three things that we need to be sure that we get right every day. There are chapters and on think-well, there’s a chapter on culture. I mentioned one chapter about his Marino, that company that was named Best Place to Work. There’s a chapter that says leaders have great meetings, and they don’t give speeches. What I mean by that is they don’t give some canned memorized, or read it off a piece of paper speech, they talk to people. There’s a difference between giving a speech, and just talking with people, and talking with people is more effective every time. I’m excited about the book. I think it’s interesting. It’s a little bit shorter than most of my books, which was on purpose. I wanted to be an easy read. Yeah, be on the lookout for “The Leadership Mindset.”
Tony: I`s it aimed at any sort of industry in particular? gentleman, it’s,
Joe Calloway: It is very general, in terms of whom the audience is. It is for anybody who is a leader, who sees themselves as going on a kind of a leadership track in their company, or just anybody that wants to be a leader aspires to be a leader. It is also a great book for entrepreneurs. Even if you just have a one person business, it’s a terrific book to get ideas for how you lead that business. Listen, I’m a one person business and there in terms of leadership principles that I tried to put into play every day to make my business successful.
Tony: Okay, that will be on my Christmas list. A nice New Year’s every my new year list.
Joe Calloway: New Year’s resolution.
Tony: Are you working? Have you got ideas for your next book?
Joe Calloway: No, I’m a total blank i just finished up the very final parts of in the final editing of “The Leadership Mindset.” I can’t think beyond that for a while you lifted you let to give me a little while looking for something to work its way into my brain.
Tony: You need to rest for a while?
Joe Calloway: I think so.
Tony: If people want to find out more about you, Joe, where should they go?
Joe Calloway: They can go to Joe@Joecalloway.com and Callaway is spelled c-a-l-l-a- w -a -y. Oh hey, there’s a kind of a cool thing that we love to give away on the website, go to the videos page and scroll all the way down to the bottom and if you put your name and email in, and we hardly ever send out an email to people, but you would you would if you got an email, it would just be me doing a newsletter or something but you can have access to I think it’s 24 short videos that you can immediately download and use for meetings in your business, or just watch them yourself. The blog is also on there, which has got some cool ideas. Yeah there’s some fun stuff on there, Joe, way that give you my email address earlier I said Joe
Tony: You did
Joe Calloway: It’s: not Joe add anything? It’s just Joe calloway.com. Sorry.
Tony: That’s like that something Joe? Well, I’m sure yeah. And that’s fantastic. I’m sure the listeners really enjoy having a look at that and I certainly will as well. Joe, I it’s been a real honor to speak to you. I’m looking forward to finishing this book and read in your other books. I hope to speak with you sometime again in the future
Joe Calloway: I hope we do too and it’s been an honor for me too tony it’s been fun this is I would love to do this again sometime.
Tony: Fantastic. Thank you, Joe.
Next week in Episode 11, I speak with Jackie handy Jackie has supported hundreds of individuals in numerous organizations around the world in accelerating performance. She was formerly a top performing recruitment consultants and manager for a couple of decades and through her corporate speaking training and consultancy work. She does a lot of personal development. She has quite a deep understanding of human behavior, why we do what we do and recently as only a very successful TED Talk, which will be speaking about it next week’s show. One of the things I loved about Jackie, she says that laughter and fun fundamental to the journey of fulfillment. Next week, Episode 11, with Jackie handy, so thank you for listening, be great if you would subscribe and leave a review. You might like to join the Facebook group, just search on Facebook for exceeding expectations. Maybe start a conversation about some points you’ve heard about this separate or any of the other episodes. Maybe tell a story about a time when you received an amazing experience you didn’t expect from someone he could even nominate someone that you would like to hear interviewed on the show or write a book with you if you’ve read a book on customer service or something that you know talks about, over delivering it in some way that maybe do a book review and suggest ways that people can over deliver to their customers. Yeah, be great to hear from you in the Facebook group and get some conversation started. And in the meantime, I look forward to speaking with you next week.