EE023 – Michelle Mills-Porter – Human Magnificence

Transcript:

Tony: Exceeding Expectations episode 23

Welcome to another edition of Exceeding Expectations. The Podcast for people who wants to really excel and give their customers an amazing experience. In this week’s episode I speak with Michelle Mills Porter who was caught up in a tsunami in Southeast Asia in 2004 and it led to quite a remarkable transformation in her life and in her business. So let’s hear from Michelle Mills Porter.

Here we are, another edition of Exceeding Expectations and today we have the pleasure of a lady called Michelle Mills Porter, how are you Michelle?

Michelle: I’m fantastic. Thank you. Tony, how are you?

Tony: I’m very well, thank you. We were just having a conversation before we started recording. You’ve got quite a history. How would you sum up what you’ve done over the last 20 years?

Michelle: Well, I guess by the time you get to our age, Tony, everyone’s got a few stories. It’s just whether you are a storyteller or not, in terms of what you do with them I guess. The only thing that I think I’m really good at, is understanding people. That’s- I’m on a constant evolution, as we all are. In terms of developing the understanding of human beings and the way that we behave and the way we communicate. So that’s my area of specialism.

Tony: And how would you say that came about?

Michelle: I think- if I’m completely honest, I think it was probably through adversity. I think we learn our biggest lessons from adversity. And right from a very young age. I actually found it quite difficult to communicate with other people and that’s not from my own doing really. I was one of those children that was born at the end of August. When I started school, a lot of the friends that I was with in nursery was started before me because they came in the school year before. They started school and I was left behind at nursery. Then when I started school, I was too advanced for the year that they’d put me in. When it came to moving up a year, instead of just moving me at one year, they moved me at two years. So right at those fundamental years of my life, I was mixed with loads of people that I didn’t know. I got into a situation where I was only allowed to play if I was intake or, if I was a wolf in what time is it Mr. Wolf? Those are the only times that people would let me play. They kind of kept me arm’s length because I was a newbie. Right from an early age, I was always thinking, what is it? What can I do to fit in? What can I do to build rapport with people? What is gonna make me acceptable? So I guess the journey started way back then.

Tony: Instead of just kind of, withdrawing and feeling bad about being bullied, you tried to analyze it at that young age?

Michelle: Yeah, I suppose that was a subconscious thing. I’ve never been bullied. Even though, I was different, I was very dark skinned as a child because my dad is half Burmese and I was very dark skinned as a child. And that was unusual. So of course I got the nicknames I got called also Chinky and things like that. I had this adversity around me. People wanting to pick fights and stuff, but I’ll never say I was bullied because, I never was. I was always a survivor. It just made me a little bit – it gave me a little bit more attitude I suppose. I guess I was always used to standing on a soapbox and having an opinion and celebrating being different. In fact, it was so funny. One, I was actually thinking.. I was talking with somebody recently and we were talking about how it is being different. And I looked back on some old photos and there’s a photo of me at 10 years old and I’ve got the biggest “Michael Jackson” Afro Perm you’ve ever seen. And everyone that sees it Tony, thinks that it’s a wig and it’s not. It’s actually my hair at 10 years old my parents let me have a perm. So I turned my dead straight, black, shiny hair into this huge afro and I rocked it. I mean I was cocky. The walk. I loved it. I loved being different.

Tony: And so how did that develop into your – when she started work. Did you use that or did you actually sort of go out to try to learn more about that?

Michelle : No, not really. I kind of, I had little bits of adversity throughout my life. I joined the airforce at 17. I swapped schools again and went through exactly the same thing at high school. Then I joined the airforce at 17. Although that was loads of fun, there was a lot of conflict there as well. Especially as I said, there’s kind of 80 men to one woman in the air force. Now, if you imagine you are on an air force station working with all of these men and even though I might think it’s normal, the wives of the men didn’t. There’s a lot of animosity and another conflict that you have to learn to cope with that. When I came out the air force, I kind of fell into a sales career. I guess I was learning about communicating and I was lucky enough to start- actually my sales career started in telesales. I was selling advertising space over the phone. Now what a lot of people don’t know Tony, is that when you communicate in an environment where you’re stripped of the biggest attribute you have, which you know, human beings use their visual sense more than any other. When you strip that away from someone, if they can communicate without that visual sense, that actually makes them really good communicators. We’re almost learning to communicate blindfolds. That’s where I learned a lot about preempting what people want and what people need, and learning to read them a little bit better. Well I guess that Sales career, I clawed my way up through that career and had a very colorful career. It must be said, I worked in some pretty tough environments. My last employed position was as head of client development for a branding agency in London. And I absolutely loved it, but I was doing exactly the same thing. I was picking up the phone and building rapport with complete strangers in a very short space of time. So that’s where I exercised those muscles. It wasn’t really, until the tsunami and being involved in the tsunami that my whole life took a different trajectory

interviewer : Just for the people listening who suddenly they weren’t expecting to come. Let’s go into that. So you mentioned to me before that you just went on a holiday to Sri Lanka. Do you want to talk about that?

Michelle : Yeah, sure. Well, I’d started my own company by then and we were winning massive amounts of awards. We made a huge splash in the industry because we were the only marketing agency, ever, that worked on results only. We were paid on results only. Of course we caused a bit of a splash. We won a customer care/ customer service award. We won A best small business of the year award. We were investors in people and we were literally riding the crest of a wave. Excuse the pun didn’t see that one coming Tony. We decided- me and my partner decided to go on holiday and celebrate, with a couple of exotic holidays and we learned to dive in the UK. We found ourselves on a diving holiday in Sri Lanka at Christmas 2004. So we literally spent three days on holiday before we were caught in the biggest natural disaster in our living history. That was a really poignant moment for me because being involved in that actually did change the whole trajectory. It put me, it kind of, it’s almost like going to see a chiropractor. The whole experience put me back in line with my true values and I wasn’t expecting that.

interviewer : How quickly or what did you do after you returned to the UK? what was different?

Michelle : Well, I think just to explain why it realigned me, to just to preempt what happened when I got back. I think a lot of people say, “Oh, you were involved in the tsunami that must have been dreadful”. Of course it was. It was the most horrific experience of my life, because 250,000 people lost their lives. And the same amount of people lost their lives afterwards. It was massive. But it was actually the realization that I wasn’t in line with my core values. That’s what had a massive impact on me. When you’re in a situation of true adversity, what happens is you see right through to a person’s core. We don’t spend time putting on the mask that we wear, on a daily basis when you’re in a life or death situation. You literally saw people values at play, and it was astonishing. It actually became the most enlightening time in my life as well. When I finally made it back to the UK, I went back to my company and I walked into the boardroom and I looked at all of these awards and all of these testimonials and the photographs of us at champagne dinners and all this kind of stuff. And I just felt physically sick. I have no desire, to do what I’d been doing before. For me, what I realized is that my true values, which were all about, consideration for other people, ethics and morals Those were the things that I was interested in. And my business just wasn’t important to me anymore.

Michelle : And so I threw myself into the Hickey village fund. Which is the charity that me and my friends started. Literally, just started to try and raise as much money and awareness and help to get these people who had saved our lives; to get them back on their feet and do whatever we could to try and repay that. And so that’s when I started to change my life and that’s when I started to learn just how important human behavior is and that’s what set me on this whole new trajectory. So I literally just threw myself into learning as much as I could about human behavior. So although there is this backstory of always having an interest, it wasn’t really until that point that I suddenly thought this is more than an interest. I need to understand what it is that’s happening here. So I just learned as much as I could about human beings. About why we act the way we do? Why do we behave like that? And that’s what led me on the journey that I’ve been on ever since.

Tony: So when you said you were learning about human behavior, you were learning sort of like psychology and doing courses and reading books and so on? What were you specifically doing?

Michelle: Not, really academic. So I always tend to go down a different route Tony and I became a practitioner. A behavioral profile practitioner. So I learned about behavioral profiling tools and analyses. It’s literally through doing, that made me an expert. So I became a master behavior profiler and I’ve done thousands of profiles on people. And every time you deliver the results of the profile your understanding just deepens a little bit further. When you’ve done thousands upon thousands of them, you start to understand a whole different level. That then took me on to understanding about values. Because when you do a behavior analysis you understand, how you’re behaving. It’s all about the how. How do I behave? How do I change my behavior? How do I build rapport with other people? How do I take from my behavior in order to fit in better?. What you don’t understand necessarily is, Why? And I needed to get to the why? So then I started to learn more about people’s values as a human being. Where does that come from? How much of it is nurture? How much of it is nature? And how do we change those five years if we want to? And that led me on a completely different path.

Amalgamating the three and putting them together with all the previous stuff that I’d done. it just led me to now doing these three areas of communication that I specialize in. So one of them is nonverbal communication and that’s obviously all of the body language the facial expression that kind of stuff. And even the written word. Then, there’s the non-visual communication which is all about how to communicate over the phone and over podcasts and these kinds of things. And then there’s behavior and values which is the third. That’s where I am now amalgamating all three and putting them together in a new form of analysis.

Tony: So do you coach people on a one to one basis or did you run workshops? How does that work?

Michelle: No. Well I tend to work with organizations. For instance, I worked with a premiership football team, as an example and I will go in there to help them with their team. To help their team to increase their performance. What I ended up doing of course, is working with every person in that team on a one to one level. That’s the way that you get to understand the people’s real core values, what motivates them, what drives them. Once they understand it and understand the people around them. Then you can start to put that team together and make them- or help them to unleash that hidden power that they have within them. Maybe not being used to its to its full extent. And when you get an organization or a team full of people, they’re all learning to do this together. Then the key thing is, to put all of that performance together. To put all of those skills in the same pot. What happens then is you get this incredible release of energy and performance when people are creating something bigger than the sum of its parts. So I guess it’s a two way answer. I work with organizations to help their teams performed better. I end up working one to one with those people but of course I also do open workshops for organizations to come along as well.

Tony: And I would imagine, I mean, obviously you’ll correct me on this, but If you’re working with a large group of people like you’ve just mentioned. There’s going to be such a- they’re all going to be different in terms of their personalities and whatever. I would presume that some of them will be quite skeptical about this and others would be far more open. So how difficult would it be if there are people that are skeptical about this to work with them?

Michelle: Again Tony , that’s something that I’ve really worked on. I’m a professional speaker as well. When you’re standing in front of an audience, speakers will know this, you can pick out who is with you and who isn’t. Just by their body language. You can tell, whether someone’s going to be open to this kind of subject or not. Based largely on their behavior. Even what positions they hold in what organizations. So if you’ve got an audience full of lawyers, they’re gonna behave very differently to an audience full of performance or to a charity. It’s not pigeon holes, but there are patterns in human behavior and we are drawn to vocations that suit what’s comfortable for us. So it stands to reason that you’re going to find these patterns. When you’re working with a group of people, t’s very important – when you’re presenting to them initially, to be able to identify which ones are going to be less likely to accept this off the cuff and which ones are going to be raving about it. And maybe a little bit too enthusiastic and you have the expertise is required for you to be able to taper the enthusiasm of some people and give the people who are a little bit more skeptical, the science and the proof and the evidence that they need before they’re on board. You have to get everyone the same level. Once you’ve done that, you’ve cracked it, because then we can accept each other and work together to achieve that performance that we’re after.

[Silence]

Tony: And, is there are there ever occasions where there were just some people who just won’t open up and they just refuse to believe in this kind of thing?

Michelle: I’ve never had it happen. Tony, and I’ve been doing this for many years. There are people who don’t want to do anything moving forward Because you know so they’ve been on the workshop and they’ve done the training. But you know they say Michelle, I don’t need to do this. I don’t feel that I want it and that’s, that’s great you know, we will just feed that back to the management team to the leadership team. But my job is to tell the leadership team why that person is feeling like that. And it’s very easy to identify and then, you know, whatever development program you put in place for them is going to be reflective of that. So they don’t want any more one to one stuff that’s absolutely fine. We’ll work with what they want to what they need. But we always have the answer because the answers are in the analysis .

Tony: And so the reverse of that. So I, you know, I said about the people who won’t open up, but the people who really.. Kind of like see, wow, I just didn’t realize any of this before. How does that help them? How to have the day go forward?

Michelle: Well, I’m going to pick on Adrienne, a really good friend of mine. I hope she doesn’t mind me mentioning her. She’s one person like that. So I was called into her organization to help her with her team with their personal development and with working together. And she was the managing director of this organization and we found out very quickly and she was just brilliant. She loved it, absolutely loved it. And she said to me in shut, you’re the first person that’s ever given me permission to be me. And of course it was nothing to do with me it was to do with her perception of what was required of her. And somehow having this analysis in front of her, in black and white this is who you are. These are your prominent qualities. it just opened up a world of possibilities for her. What she did is she actually left the organization because it turned out that the position she was in.. She was actually being quite oppressed in that position. And what she did, she left the organization that she started on her own and she now has a really successful consultancy. Oh, I’ve literally watched her flourish and grow and spread her wings and that’s what I love seeing. So when people get this, if they decide to apply what they’ve learned if they decide to take it and use it to help build rapport with other people and to develop it, then they can literally flourish. Being in flow with who you authentically are is the most important thing. And when you are truly in flow with who you really are, the floodgates just opened and the world is your oyster. You can achieve anything you want it.

Tony: You mentioned before we started recording about use a tool. I think it was called the people reader?

Michelle: Yeah.

Tony: how you use or how does that work? Well, the people reader is, is a tool that I’ve just created. It’s an analysis and this is… It’s a rapport building analysis. But what it does is it amalgamates all of those things that I specialize in. so let me explain. Let’s imagine that you and I had met each other and we’ve done, we sent a couple of emails to each other and on the phone you say to me, Michelle, do you know what I really like what you did? Why don’t you put a proposal to me. That’s the point in time that I would use this analysis, the people reader. But I would do the people read up on you without you knowing. So we’ll go online, I access one of these analyses and it asks me just 18 questions about you and I have to answer questions about what you wear. So what kind of/ how do you present yourself when we met? what were you wearing ?what was your body language like? And asks me questions about how you open your emails? How you close your emails? it says a little bit about what kind of things interest you and what turns you off? You know, what is it that doesn’t build rapport with you? But they’re very simple questions and you just pick you know? With multiple choice Out of these questions we get is an immediate eight page report that tells me exactly how to build rapport with you. So for instance, it might say when you meet Tony? And when you, when you’ve had that, that meeting, make sure that you hug him and give him a kiss on the cheek don’t just go for the sturdy handshake or it might say the opposite. It might say, this is how you start your emails. This is how you finish your emails. When you talked to Tony over the phone, these are the kinds of words that you should use and these are the kinds of things to stay clear of. When you follow up the proposal. This is how much time and space you give them or you know how close you are with him? And it tells you even how to close that deal. So this eight page report tells you exactly how to convert that person who was a prospect into a client. And it’s all about rapport building. It takes into consideration the body language elements, ….all those three elements I spoke about, the non-visual, the nonverbal and the behavior and values of that person. …I’m, I just think it’s astonishing. I’ve just had the test pilot results back and the reliability figures, and it is 9.5 out of 10 which I’ve never seen in my history. I’m so proud of it. I could burst.

Tony: And so what, so you actually created this program did you?

Michelle: I did and built it from scratch.

Tony: Wow! Okay. And so how many people have you?

Michelle: [crosstalk} literally just launched. In fact, it’s not even launched. it’s a kind of soft launch. So at the moment I’ve used it with my current clients, but mainly would been a test pilot’s I think it’s important Tony, when you’re going to launch something like this, you have to have proof. You have to have reliability figures. So if you came to me and said, Michelle, you know, how reliable is this? I can show you the figures and say as of all of these people that filled in a reliability with port. It’s got 9.5 out of 10 which means that one person perhaps thought he doesn’t always want to give a 10 and everyone else thought it was marvelous [laugher]

Tony: kind of results. Have A [crosstalk]

Michelle: well, I actually I did this on one of my clients recently and they were going into a board meeting with a particularly problematic person…. This wasn’t a client that they needed to convert. This was actually someone they wanted to build rapport with… and so they came to me and they did the people we do with me and what that did is it showed them exactly what they should take out of that email, what they should add into their proposal,and how they should behave during the board meeting as well it’s all there. All the evidence is they tappeded everything they did. This managing director said to me afterwards, Michelle, that saved the board. It was that, it was the, the people read out the analysis results that told me what I subconsciously already knew that I needed to do but it gave me… The confidence to actually do to put into practice those things and… It saves the day. So I can’t really think of a better example than that.

Tony: And how different would this be to something like the Myers Briggs and disc profiling? Hake and [crosstalk]

Michelle: Well it gives you the answers and nothing else gives you the answers that might sound… I guess this is the reason why I created it. If you want to do a behavior profile, you call it to behave you’re probably following someone else. They have to do the behavior profile. So if I said to you, Tony, before we do business with each other, I’d like you to do behavioral profile for me. Would you do that? The chances are, and you’d say, no [laughter] not really You know, something that you can do One of the people is something you do yourself. So how am I going to expertly know what behavior profile you are? If I don’t if I’m not a master practitioner? Because you can’t get what behavior people are, you can’t ask someone else to you know to fill out a profile. So what this does is it asks me about my opinion of you. What are you showing me in terms of all of the hints and tips that you’re giving me your body language, your facial expressions, your tone of language, the way you write. It’s all of those elements. And what it does is it gives you these eight page report of answers… it’s nothing else apart from the answers. This is how you build rapport with this person. So what I found with one company that I’ve tested this with is the sales people with very high level. So they’d been in sales, all of their knives, and they’re the last people to want to sit down in a classroom, learn about body language, learn about behavior profiling, we’ll learn about facial expressions. Why should they, they’re successful sales people. They’d been doing this all of their lives. So I’m tuning this the people reader has been a brilliant tool that gives him the answers without having to go in any training or anything like that. No. I know this might sound manipulative, but what happens is that this tool is actually like the stabilizers because what we’re doing is when they’re thinking about, okay, when I fill out that people read it for this particular client, I know what it’s going to ask me. So there’s the learning to understand how to capture that information ready in preparation for sending out the people reader. So what they’re doing on a subconscious level is they’re learning to read people anyway, the learning to build rapport by reading them, understanding how to communicate with them in the most effective way for the best results. And they’re doing that on a subconscious level…So it’s all about building rapport through Tony. It’s not about anything else apart from building rapport. If you can preempt what your client, your potential client wants and what they need and you can give that before they have to ask for it, then what you do is you create a massive amount of subconscious rapport. And that’s something, once you’ve got that relationship, it is virtually impenetrable by the competition.

Tony: And so where do you see this going? What will you, will you be teaching other people to do this? To help others or, I mean, how, how would this[crosstalk]

Michelle: yeah, there’s many ways I can do. I have to keep my hands in. They tell me I have to deliver it myself because that’s where you, you’re at the cutting edge and so I don’t, you know, we don’t want to be in the background. I want to be out there delivering it, seeing the results, improving it, coming out with more tools. But I also have an army of practitioners that go out there and do this stuff. The most important thing when I came back from the tsunami as I wanted to be able to help people to under understand each other better, to forgive each other for more stuff, to try and understand why we are the way we are. And the only thing I wanted to do was to share that with as many people as I can. So when I have practitioners that go out there and help people to unleash their magnificence and help teams to create better performance, they’re doing that using the tools. And the methodology that I use, they’re doing exactly that is far more people that I could reach on my own that had been reached in that way

Tony: from what you were saying. Once you have a much clearer understanding of someone and you know their wants and needs and likes and dislikes and so on, it’s therefore much easier to not just meet .. expect expectations, but to really give them, what is it?

Michelle: I think the thing is predicting it and this comes right back to the customer service thing, you know to be able to predict what someone wants and someone needs and, and give them that before they ask for it. That’s the point in time. Well, let’s imagine it’s you and I, and I’ve just given you something. I, said Tony, I think this might be useful for you and you think I was just thinking that, but I don’t even have to say it. Michelle gets me, she understands me. She talks my language, she listens, she cares. And so therefore on a subconscious level, you build massive rapport with me. And if anyone else tries to come in and say, well, Tony, can I do this for you? You’re likely to say no, I’m sorry. I’ve got a great relationship with Michelle. She’s the only person that delivers this for me. That’s what I want people to achieve. That relationship that has longevity, that relationship, that is long term and keeps giving, keeps reciprocating, keeps giving and that’s, you know, that’s really the key to all of this stuff.

Tony: Earlier we were talking about it made you been a member of the professional speakers association, PSA for four years now. And, and you were telling me this year, well, the convention a few months ago, you won the…what was it built? The comedian of the convention?

Michelle: {crosstalk} it’s actually play which is a lovely drinking bowl and it’s called the Kenny Harris budget of honor for comedy award. That’s respect to Kenny Harris. who wel lost several years ago. And this award was actually created in his honor.

Tony: And so what did you have to do to win that?

Michelle: standard [laughter] it the first I thought, do you know what? I thought there are, I’ve not been in the PSA that long I’ve you know kind of like me. I come in on glides along big and I do stuff and I get awards and this, that and the other am I do it really quickly and there some people that don’t really know me very well, so I thought this year what I’m going to do is I’m just going to get on stage and I’m just going to build rapport with some people that don’t know me. I’m going to be a bit self-deprecating and just make friends with some of my tribe I’ve not reached yet. And that’s the only thing I had in mind when I did it and what I delivered was just a series of stories about what the food I am. [laughter] It was just, it was real stories. It was just real stuff that’s happened in my life. and I just delivered it in a comedy set style and boldly over went and won the national award. So I was shocked and thrilled in equal measure.

Tony: And you got no comedy background all?

Michelle: No! I, I haven’t, I mean, I was called down the, the wonderful Caroline who are lifting late. She was the first person to ever say that I was an entertainer so I always put comedy in my in my training and in my speaking, and I guess I hit behind it really if I was nervous, more comedy would come out. So always have that element there. But of course when you’re talking about something like the tsunami and the lessons that you’ve learned it’s a very serious subject. There’s no room for comedy there so most people in the PSA, specially they might know me for that stuff and they might not know that, you know, that I can be funny as well. So it was great to kind of show that side and actually to get acceptance from your tribe in that way was just the most amazing thing. and it was wonderful, you know it was caught on video. So I’ve played that a couple of times, you know, and it, it’s really uplifting to be able to get that love from your tribe is just fantastic.

Tony: How has that helped you move forward?

Michelle: I, think I’ll be honest, Tony, I think as a performer, as a speaker, you have to have an air of confidence. You have to have maybe even an air of arrogance in terms of self-belief. So I’m not going to say that I didn’t think I was funny of course I thought it was funny. Did I think I could win? It may be on a subconscious level. I thought it was good enough because otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered getting up on stage. We all think we’re good at what we did. But to get the audience telling you that you’re good at what you, that is something that we all crave, that we all live. For us, the only real measurement is the external factors people saying yes you know what Michelle, you funny so now even when my husband tries to crack a joke or anyone around me tries to crack a joke, I just say, you know, well I’m the along with the award you know?

[Laugher]

Tony: I bet that goes down we’ll with your husband?

Michelle: {crosstalk] my husband not [inaudible] for me is one actually he’s got funny bones. It’s what’s kept us to follow what the 25 years, a little to bets. He’s hysterical. So I’ve only, I can only really milk this for a few more months until I have to hand over the [inaudible] to the next owner. So I’m going to milk it. Totally.

Tony: what are your thoughts on the yeah, so this podcast is called Exceeding Expectations is it’s about trying to give your customers a great experience. I mean, what are your thoughts on that whole area?

Michelle: It’s just trying to understand how they work. Now I had a conversation with Stephanie Bosh, early on lovely new members of the PSA. She’s absolutely gorgeous and she reminded me of something she said, Michelle, when people say treat other people the way that you would want to be treated, they’re wrong. And she’s right. They are wrong. You should treat people the way that they want to be treated, which might not necessarily be the way that you want to be treated. Because if you take that as your mantra, then all you’re doing is building rapport with people that are the same as you. If you want to build rapport with people that are the same machine you need to try and understand how they want to be treated, how do they want to be communicated with? What is going to make them think? Do you know what? This is the person I want to do business with. This is the person I want to interact with and if you can crack that, if you can understand other people and deliver what they want, not what you want, that’s when you build that massive rapport and make the relationship work.

Tony: Okay. Michelle, if people want to find out more about you and the things you do where?

Michelle: well my website is MNP. It’s Michelle Mills Porter and the people know me as MMP the people reader and I’m also on LinkedIn, so it’s very easy. The good thing is there’s no one else on the planet called Michelle Mills Porter, so I’m quite lucky in that respect.

Tony: So you have fitness call Googlewhack. I think that something like that?

{Laughter}

Michelle: I’ve never heard that phrase before. It sounds a little bit saucy actually Tony. I’ll have to look that up.

Tony: You can go into YouTube and search for Dave Gorman. I just put Dave Gorman, Google, and I think he came up with a whole comedy routine about a phrase where only one result in Google. especially like a name or something along those lines. Yeah, it’s quite funny sketch.

Michelle: Yeah, no, I will definitely know that I’ve just written it down and I do like a bit of Dave Gorman, but yes, I’m only Michelle mill porter on the planet. that God says my husband.

Tony: I just, one bit of clarity. You mentioned about the, you said your website was MMP, is that mmp.com.

Michelle … Hold on a sec. [laughter] Let me just make sure. www.mmp.uk.com

Tony: Dot.uk.com okay. And I’ll put all of those links into the show notes as well. So yeah, so anyone who didn’t catch that, you just look in the show notes and you’ll find all the links that Michelle mentioned. Well thank you very much for your time Michelle I really appreciate i think there going to be a lot of people listening who have listened to this or we’ve very inquisitive and I’m probably once I know a lot more about certainly about the people read it all in it as well as the other thing too you have mentioned.

Michelle: Oh I certainly hope so. It’s been a thrill speaking with you. It doesn’t feel like work with having fun does it.

Tony: Absolutely. Thank you very much Michelle.

Michelle: Thank you it a plague take care Tony.

{Music}

Tony: Next week in episode 24 we hear from a lady called Sydney Wong who’s based over in Canada and she had some remarkable experiences when she worked in Silicon Valley at a very young age. So that’s next week with Sydney wong hope you enjoyed this week’s episode of Exceeding Expectations. Please do leave us a review. That would be really useful, and I look forward to speaking with you next week.