EE036 – Naresh Vissa – 50 Shades of Marketing

Episode 36 – Naresh Vissa – 28-05-2019.mp3

Tony Winyard [00:00:00] Exceeding expectations. Episode 36. Welcome to the podcast that aims to give you ideas of how you can find ways to give your customers a better experience just to give them more than they were expecting. And that’s the way to retain clients and that’s how you get better testimonials better referrals which then means you spend less money on marketing and advertising. My guest in this week’s episode is narration visa who is a digital marketing expert and he’s got some very interesting stories especially one about Donald Trump. He’s got a book called The Trump book which is all about the way that Trump and his team used digital marketing. And he now says he could clearly see way before the election that they were going to win the election quite easily simply because of the way they were using digital marketing and online marketing in such a superior way to their opponents. And he thinks that unless their opponents wise up it’s going to be the same thing again in the next election. So that same thing is coming up in this week’s episode. If you do like this episode please do leave a review for us on places such as Stitcher and an eye iTunes maybe subscribe to the podcast so you ensure it is downloaded to your phone or your tablet every week we have a Facebook group you can go in now and leave. You ask questions start conversations about different things just simply go onto Facebook and search for exceeding expectations. If you have any suggestions for guests that would be that you would like to hear anyone you know who does have the mindset of trying to over deliver trying to give their customers a much better experience. Then please do get insights. And yeah I can I can get in contact with them to see if they are interested in being a guest on the show.

Tony Winyard [00:01:59] So right now it’s over to Naresh Vissa in this week’s edition of exceeding expectations.

[00:02:12] My guest is that a visa. Right. I suppose that I could pronounce that correctly. Yes. Narration That’s fantastic and nourish you in and temper you with sentiment. Yep Tampa Florida.

Tony Winyard [00:02:23] And where did you where did you grow up in the States.

Naresh Vissa [00:02:26] I grew up in Houston Texas. That’s what I was born and raised for the first 18 years or so of my life. And then I went away to college out of state and never went back to Houston after that. That at least to live.

[00:02:43] I’m sorry. Is is Tampa your home now or do you see yourself moving from nice to Tampa his home.

[00:02:48] I recently got married. We bought a house and Tampa is is home and it’s been home for the last four and a half years.

[00:02:56] So you mentioned about when you after you left Houston and then you went to university and so on and so tell me a little bit about your journey into kind of entrepreneurship.

[00:03:05] Well when I was in high school I always that’s when I gained an interest in entrepreneurship. I actually took a course in most high schools don’t offer courses like this but it was a course on Donald Trump and his show The Apprentice. And that was my first introduction into business and entrepreneurship because in high school you’re at least here in the United States. It’s mostly the generic English maths physics chemistry et cetera. This course kind of opened my eyes and to the the business opportunities that are available. And it also made me understand how the wealthy people I knew my friends some of my friends parents for example or my classmates parents how they built their wealth. And it was not by working at a full time job somewhere it was because they went out on their own started some kind of business whether it was a law firm or an accounting firm CPA oil and gas. I grew up in Houston as I said which is heavy oil and gas. That’s how they became wealthy. So that’s that’s when entrepreneurship kind of piqued my interest to say and but I never really knew how to get involved in it. I studied it I learned it. I followed it. And then when I went off to college I even lived on a floor full of it was a special what they called a learning community full of entrepreneurs people who had the same interests that I had. So again studied it learned it was was involved with it had friends who tried to get into it. Then around my when I was about 19 years old I guess you can say that’s when I without even knowing it started my first business. So I was working at a radio station where interning at a radio station during the summer between my freshman and sophomore year and sophomore year and at the end of my term the radio station asked me to continue working while I went to school and the radio station was based in Texas. The I went to school in New York and so I thought it was back then it was 2008 and there was thought there would be a little challenging juggling school and being out of state but that ended up turning into a career in radio which turned into a service that I offered and podcasting which is now eleven years later we manage we produce and manage more than 20 different podcasts whether it’s getting them up and running managing them producing them consulting with podcasts et cetera but back in when I was like I said 19 years old I was just shy and I enjoyed what I was doing. I had a great opportunity to make some money on the side while I was going to school. It was good money especially for my age. And then as I started getting into the nitty gritty of that I said Well I have one client. Why don’t I try to get five clients. Why. Why just stick with this one radio station. I should go to other radio stations and see if I can do the same thing for them. And that was my first foray into entrepreneurship. All those previous years I just kind of studied it and nothing really clicked. And then when I finally built top a skill set I was able to promote and market my services and secure business. And then once I was able to do that I was able to grow my my business and start offering more services even services that I wasn’t able to do.

[00:07:08] I was able to hire people and grow what is now Christian media and marketing and so when in those early days that you are in radio what was it that you particularly enjoyed about it.

[00:07:21] Well I was always interested in becoming a sports broadcaster as a kid. Middle school or high schooler I got great experience in high school. Being an editor of the school newspaper also broadcasting many of the sports games whether it was the high school football games high school basketball games. So I always wanted to work in broadcasting whether it was television radio maybe even print. So one of my majors in college was broadcast and digital journalism at the time. Journalism was was going digital so I didn’t really know what the digital aspect of it meant. Now eleven years later it’s all digital. Digital is it’s all digital journalism. But at the time I was extremely interested in broadcasting and in radio reporting TV reporting like I said not just in front of the camera but behind the scenes as well as a director producer editor etc. So that’s why I was interested in radio. That’s how I got my first internship while I was in college in radio at the radio station and it wasn’t just talk show stuff. It wasn’t just producing and booking. It was also reporting doing radio reporting radio news reporting.

[00:08:48] I’ve got some great experience doing all of that and around those days is when put costs put cost stuff first started to make sure it was moves.

[00:08:58] Yeah. Well podcasting back then was not what it is today obviously. So today Now you mentioned podcasts and everybody has a podcast.

[00:09:11] Why do I say everybody does. Because if you own an iPhone or an Android it automatically comes with a podcasting app whether it’s a tablet iPod iPhone Android phone et cetera.

[00:09:23] Podcasting back then simply was a digital format of audio so it could be your regular AMF ham radio show and you digitize it so that it’s not just living on air but you digitize it turn it into an empty three file and make it available for download on the Internet.

[00:09:44] That’s what that’s the basic definition of podcasting and that’s what it was back then there was no tune in or Stitcher or soundcloud or Spotify or I heard radio maybe I heard radio was around but it was an obviously wasn’t as ubiquitous as it was back then so. So to go back a podcast is simply a program.

[00:10:08] It could even be music made available in digital format for download over the Internet. And that’s what podcasting was back in 2008 and 2009 when I was getting started um were you.

[00:10:22] Did you find podcasts appealing back then.

[00:10:26] What I actually did it to me in a podcast was just a term for a file that that’s really all it was. And it’s largely because a generation I grew up in was different from the generation say that my parents grew up and my parents had no interest in getting an audio file online. They probably so listened to AMF ham radio whereas in my case it was easier to listen on my computer at the time because the iPhone wasn’t as ubiquitous back then and smartphones weren’t as ubiquitous back then. But like I said it was easier to just listen on my computer to a podcast maybe while I was working or just surfing the Internet or whatnot. But it wasn’t until about 2011 when I was in graduate school that a company found me on LinkedIn and recruited me interviewed me and asked me to to essentially consult with them on launching a podcasting division for their for their general publishing company and I didn’t know much about podcasting and I even told them I say I don’t think I’m qualified for the job and they said look this is a new thing that no one’s qualified for the job but based on your background and radio your background in business and finance given that they were a financial publisher and they thought that I was a good fit. And I said Okay let’s give it a try. They said Try it out for a few months and let’s see how it goes. Well the few months turned into seven or eight months and ended up getting a full time job right out of school. And I like to say that the rest is history because I essentially left behind corporatism I left behind the idea of getting a job and banking or in management consulting which is what I went to graduate school for and pursued more entrepreneurial ventures thanks to podcasting.

[00:12:30] And then that led you into is your company cross-media media.

[00:12:35] Yes. That led me into my company and the way that got started is because I mentioned earlier that I my first service was on the radio space. Well even when I was working full time I didn’t give up my side. I guess we can call them side hustles or side hobbies. I didn’t give those up because I had time on the side and it was it was kind of extra money that was coming in and my side hustle only grew while I was working full time. It’s weird how that works but it just happened to grow while I was working full time.

[00:13:10] And then when I left my employer from day one or within the within one month of leaving my employer it’s like I gave myself a 20 percent raise. And and when I left my employer I was able to accomplish a lot while I was working for them and I built up great contacts within that industry and people trusted me and the work that I did and the services that I offered. So so that’s that’s partly why within one month I gave myself a 20 percent raise going out on my own and I was able to offer not just the podcasting services but the other stuff that I learned the other online and digital and marketing skills that I learned on during that full time job. I was able to apply those to my business and that’s how my business has been running ever since. So it’s Chris media and marketing for a full service. Now it’s a full service technology agency. At the time it started out just offering a few online and digital marketing services including podcasting.

[00:14:20] Now we’re full service. We do web development technology development app development design copywriting affiliate marketing SEO PPC you name it. If you go to Chris media marketing dot com you can see all the services that we offer and that’s something that I’ve built up over the past six years like I said so in the six years since you’ve been doing that.

[00:14:44] How do you think the industry has changed how is marketing changed in the last six years.

[00:14:48] Well it’s it’s definitely it’s continuing to change and marketing will continue to change as we move forward. Marketing 10 years ago is nothing like marketing today. Ten years ago Twitter was just coming up. It was around but it was just coming up 10 years ago. Uber wasn’t around. Snapchat was not around. They weren’t even at Snapchat was not even an idea. Lyft was not around. So the way you market is constantly evolving. Traditionally you market traditionally we think of Mailer’s snail mail we think of billboard advertising we think of newspaper ads all those are pretty much dying. I don’t want to say dead but they’re dying. And so the new media the new way of marketing if you just look at the data and the numbers more and more people and not just within the United States but globally are switching to smartphones they have access to the Internet. So that’s become the for better for worse. That’s become the channel in the medium where you get your highest rate of return on investment. So technology has changed a game and that’s why I said I now have a technology agency instead of a marketing agency because marketing and technology have merged. There’s really not much of a distinction between the two. Technology is marketing and marketing is technology. So there is a lot happening right now and there’s going to continue to be a lot more happening as we move forward. And I can tell you the biggest changes I’ve seen since let’s say two thousand and eight two thousand nine when I got started to where I am today is again the technology has improved the processes have become more efficient because of technology the cost of doing business the cost of starting a business the cost of conducting business all of that has gone down and it’s partly how I was able to grow Chris media and marketing Chris media and marketing when not if what we’re doing right now would not have been possible 10 years ago because of lack of outsourcing lack of availability of talent lack of just in general resources of knowledge knowledge is another important thing. But technology has made it all easier. And and on the marketing side you can now track everything big data has become a big part of. Of every every business really. And it’s easier to track that data to capture data to engage with that data. So I’ve given you several different examples but marketing has really really changed in the last 10 years and it’s going to continue to change within the next 10 years.

[00:17:39] And so in the next 10 years where do you see it going. What do you think might happen.

[00:17:43] Well it’s certainly going to continue to digitise in every facet possible. So I think this is more of like a broad economics discussion more than a marketing discussion.

[00:17:57] I think we’re going to see because of technology we’re going to see some players increased their margins because now you can essentially automate so many of your processes. You can now automate or outsource so many functions previously where you had to hire somebody in-house full time. And so we’re going to see major changes I think to not just the US economy but to the global economy as a whole. I think the US economy won’t end up getting hurt a little bit more because the U.S. is known to be outsourcers whereas countries like India and the Philippines are known to be to thrive as a result of the outsourcing they’re the ones that work is being outsourced there.

[00:18:41] So they’re becoming richer and we’ve seen that from my home country of India post during the dot com and postcard when it comes to technology. And now when it comes to marketing. So digitization is huge outsourcing is huge. It’s going to continue to those skills are gonna continue to become hot commodities and they’re I think going to continue to be outsourced for much cheaper for essentially nickels on the dollar and then on top of that when it comes to marketing spend. It’s all about return on investment. So I think companies because they’re able to track better or individuals are able to track their campaigns better. They’re gonna be a lot more selective in previously they could probably put some money here put some money there stick to some kind of marketing budget. I think the concept of a marketing budget is almost down the drain because you can now track that or a why and so the budget can be unlimited. If the R A Y is unlimited or the budget could be non-existent as well so that’s where we’re going with with marketing. I think everything’s going to be digitized whether you’re a mom and pop restaurant trying to get business trying to get more customers which can be through Yelp which can be through google reviews or which can be through having good search engine optimization SEO running online promotions Facebook ads et cetera. None of this was happening 10 years ago. I mean none of it was happening within the physical business space 10 years ago but now and now everything’s becoming competitive and the people who aren’t going digital the people who aren’t adapting to 2019 and the 21st century are the ones who are being left behind.

[00:20:33] Before you were telling me before we sort of acute and you tell me about you’ve written quite a few books was it five books you’ve written five books to date and how did that come about.

[00:20:42] What made you start writing books.

[00:20:45] The genesis of my first book was podcast nomics the book of podcasting to make you millions. The genesis of that was my business. It was working with podcasting clients trying to get their business and trying to manage like I said earlier manage run produce podcasts. I realized that it was getting kind of annoying how many increase we were getting and the lack of business we were getting. So it was people would come in as a lead. We’d set up meetings with them consultations and nothing was really happening and I kept repeating myself saying the same thing over and over again. Now when we did get business the frustrating part with getting the business was a lot of the times our clients were paying us but they wouldn’t listen to us. They didn’t think they’d that they were struggling to it. It was a new concept to them. This idea of podcasting. So they were trying to resist it. They were trying to fight it. So instead of fighting with them or fighting with the leads or banging my head against a wall about all the time I was wasting. I said Well let me just do something about it and let’s put it all on paper. So I that was a genesis from my living room in downtown Baltimore at the time. I just started writing a primer on podcasting from soup to nuts so that if instead of setting up all these meetings I could say hey check out this book podcast nomics or check out this primer it has all the answers to the questions that you have and so I wrote it. I then got a lot of support from it from friends from business partners from clients and decided to publish it. So I publish a book podcast nomics created a little bit of marketing spin around it and then publish a book and ended up doing extremely well. Part of it was timing it came out kind of at the time when podcasting turned a corner in the fall of 2014. That was when this the first mainstream podcast came out called serial and it came out in the fall of 2010 2014 which is when my book came out. It was the first time that many people around the world had heard of a podcast. So I think that certainly helped my book sales and it’s gone on to sell more than 12000 copies. It’s brought in a lot of business for us on the podcasting side. I’ve spoken at conferences done a ton of podcasts interviews and we work with many many different podcasters and that gave you a taste for writing and editing that gave it a taste for writing. I’ve always had an interest in writing that brought up earlier my background in journalism and doing stuff in newspaper or magazine print radio television etc. So I’ve always had an interest in writing and I always wanted to write a book as a kid. I just never knew how to do it. I thought it was really hard to do. People would tell me when I used to shadow journalists how difficult it was to write a book and how difficult it was to get published. But again technology has made it has gotten rid of the gatekeepers and the free market is is greater at work. So technology is what helped me not just podcasts but helped me write my books helped me publish my books helped me promote my books and sell now more than 15000 copies of all my books combined I mean I’m intrigued by the thoughts of the one of your books.

[00:24:23] Trump. Could you tell us about it.

[00:24:25] Yeah. So Trump book was why I should preface not just Trump book but all my books. I told you the genesis of podcasts nomics. Really. All my books. The genesis of each one of them was some kind of frustration and the frustration that I shared with podcast nomics was my clients weren’t listening to me leads where I just I was wasting my time with leads the frustration with Trump book was the proof and the proof in the data was in online and digital when it came to that 2016 election and that election here in the United States was increased incredibly polarizing and I think elections moving forward because of social media because of technology will only become more polarizing. I don’t think it has to do with the candidates per say it’s just the time that we live in is very different from the time let’s say 20 years ago when there wasn’t such a public forum online forum where anybody could get online behind a keyboard and type whatever they wanted and that that forum is what has led to this concept that you hear of called fake news because now again anybody can get behind a keyboard and write anything and type anything and it can come across as news. So Trump book was a result of kind of my frustrations which is how people or I should say how the left was just so ignorant and refused to look at the data that from the start really was showing that Donald Trump would not only win the Republican nomination but he would win the presidency as well. And he was a dark horse candidate who came out of nowhere. He ran a few times in the past before nothing really happened and he actually ran as on super liberal some even socialist policies couldn’t even win an independent party ticket.

[00:26:36] The difference the difference was he took a break build up his brand through the Apprentice show which I brought up earlier became a media television icon and that’s how he built up his brand to go from just being a business person to being a show business person and then he used online and digital extremely well to the point that he even high I mean he hired special I.T. teams marketing teams Big Data teams to identify keywords whether it was in print advertising whether it was in his speeches oral presentations so that he was saying the right stuff that would resonate with people. And so my book Trump book goes into this idea and this concept that the 2016 election was won by Donald Trump but it was also won because of the online and digital marketplace. And it goes into the data behind that showing that from the start Trump was crushing it online and digitally and by crushing it. I don’t mean unpopular because the general consensus was yeah. He’s getting a lot of publicity online but it’s all negative. And so as a result he’s going to lose because everyone is going to vote against him. But what that shows is if you go back to 2004 which is when blogs and the Internet really started becoming mainstream in the United States every presidential candidate who won online and digital won the presidency and by winning online and digital it’s basically it’s basically this simple simple idea simple concept about whoever is being talked about the most is going to win. It doesn’t matter if the mainstream news media is only reporting negative stuff. Whatever is being talked about the most is going to win and that’s what it comes down to. So the book goes into all these details all this data and end it again it makes the prediction that in 2020 Trump is going to win again simply because he’s crushing it on online and digital and until another candidate comes up who. Who can compete with with him on the online and digital marketplace. No one’s gonna beat him. And so the book goes in to all of those details. It also compiles a bunch of Facebook poll well really online posts that I personally saw that were kind of outlandish or that were just completely off base in response to them. So it’s essentially a primer on the role that the online and digital plays played in the 2016 election ultimately getting Donald Trump elected changing tax slightly so.

[00:29:28] No. Yeah. So obviously you’re an expert on marketing and digital marketing and social media and so on.

[00:29:34] So if someone wants to have a mindset of giving a better experience to their customers how can they achieve that use in digital marketing.

[00:29:44] It just depends on what kind of a business you are. So my company prides itself on its customer service and it’s actually this might be a little counterintuitive to what what you preach but our competitive advantage actually is our low costs are low pricing structure. And I say that because look my company is no different from thousands of other companies that do the same thing just like the restaurant down the street is no different from the millions of restaurants that are also in the United States. And you really have to separate yourself from the pack. And so when I started my company the business strategy was different from from what it is today. The business strategy when I started was it was high costs. It was if you want my services. This is my background. This is who I am. This is the experience I have and if you want to talk to me if you want my services it’s going to cost this crazy retainer amount per month. And that ended up actually hurting me because clients some many client not all of them but a few of the clients felt like no matter how much we delivered for them it was not enough because they themselves didn’t know how to quantify the services that we were doing. And so the. It all came to a heed when we got into a lawsuit with a client and I said I’m going to have to change the way that I do business because whether it was the lawsuit or whether it was losing clients it came down to your prices are too expensive. We’re looking to cut costs. And so that’s when I changed my model and I said I kind of took I don’t want to say the Amazon approach because Amazon and Amazon actually loses money on its online store and it’s making the bulk of its money off of its cloud computing or its its online databases online servers. So what we do is we’re essentially bringing in clients and as a business man of course I want to make money and I make sure that I make money on every deal that I do. But we try to charge less than what our competition is charging so that our clients essentially won’t leave us for price and they will pick us because of price. And then we obviously the service has always been excellent very timely really good high quality services that we offer. Again you can go to Krish media marketing dot com to check out everything but we’ve been able to keep our retention rate extremely high because of our low cost high quality services. It’s rare that anybody leaves us I can’t even remember the last time somebody left us over the last four years and then kind of going back to the Amazon model. We have some services where we get people in through the door and it’s it’s somewhat low margin. I make a little bit of money personally but it’s really on the backend where we make the real money. So once we get clients on retainer once we get clients doing big projects like online reputation management or search engine optimization or full service podcasting once we start doing that then our margin goes up tremendously. But again our rates we still keep our rates as as affordable and as competitive as possible. So I think if I found that happy medium between charging the right price and and trying to keep all the clients and customers happy and so business as kind of recycled itself I want to say it’s somewhat automated we came out with a referral program where we give our our clients discounts if they refer business to was we paid out commissions if they were for a business to was and all of our clients have tens or hundreds or in some cases thousands of clients of their own.

[00:33:54] So like I said the business is kind of recycled itself and it’s been able to sustain itself and grow over the past few years and so would you say that in any of the different things that you would do in the services that your friend that you are offering people things that they didn’t expect to experience they didn’t expect.

[00:34:13] Yeah absolutely. So a lot of people come in through referral. These are people who I’ve never met personally. The bulk of our business is people who I’ve never met personally but they come in through referral because somebody else highly recommended us.

[00:34:28] And a lot has to do with the philosophy that I carry the philosophy that I have which is I don’t I don’t do anything that I do for the money. This idea that you have to always be money conscious and just do everything for the money it’s doesn’t really tie into entrepreneurship. Mark Zuckerberg did not start Facebook because he wanted to make a billion dollars. He simply started it because he saw a problem. He thought connectivity was so important between people and there was no way to do it digitally. And so he just did it for fun. Bill Gates did not start Microsoft because he wanted to make a billion dollars. He started it again because he read an article in a magazine and got some ideas and went to a mentor and shared those ideas with him inside I think there is a real opportunity to do something here. Steve Jobs same thing. He felt like the computer at the time was incredibly immobile. It was large it was difficult to use and he wanted to make it easier because he felt like a computer could do so much for people. And we all know what we do with computers and with iPhones now. So it’s money has never been the motivating factor. In fact if money was the motivating factor I would have stayed full time. I would have stayed and corporate had a stable salary known what exactly what I was getting paid every two weeks and just done that. Which is what probably most people feel comfortable doing. But entrepreneurship it’s not like I told you that I gave myself a 20 percent raise when I left my full time job. But what I didn’t tell you was there were some years in between where I was worried. I was worried for my future. I thought I was worried about paying rent. I was worried that that I would have to go back and get a full time job. And at the end of the day it was on a money thing it was an ego thing. It was that I was a failure. I gave it a try would be embarrassing to go back home to be hard to convince employers to come back after being out on my own. That’s why I was incredibly worried. But I’m really fortunate now because I think I’ve reached a stage mentally to where I feel like I don’t ever need to be dependent on an employer or a boss ever again. I’ve I’ve reached a point where there’s so many opportunities in front of me to to make money and to build a value to do stuff that I really enjoyed doing and learn. We live in an amazing time thanks to technology and again I’ve I feel mentally that I’ve reached that point. And so I don’t think I’ll ever at least knock on wood. But within the next five years I don’t see myself going back to get a corporate job because of kind of that mentality and all the opportunities that are available to me. And then also it’s a lifestyle thing as well. So freedom has a lot to do with it. You’re working at a company your freedom is somewhat limited now. I’m at my home on my home office talking to you doing this podcast interview in the middle of a day.

[00:37:37] There is no way this would have been happening if I was working at some corporation. So I’m really happy with the way things have turned out.

[00:37:46] I’ve gone through the ups I’ve gone through the downs and hopefully things will continue to go up so just before we finish what were your general thoughts on over deliver annexation expectations. What do you think about that whole area.

[00:37:59] Well I think it’s important to always over deliver and to always exceed expectations. And so I’m not saying people should under promise and over deliver. I know that’s a strategy that you hear from time to time. But I think if you’re going to make a promise you should certainly maintain that promise. And when you deliver you should certainly try to over deliver and give more than than what you can and certainly Chris media and marketing. We try to do that. I try to do that personally even when it’s not business related if it’s something non-business Personally I try to. It’s philosophy that I live by and I brought up earlier about philosophy about money and I should just say I reiterate like it’s almost just you have to have this strong strong willed somewhat stubborn mindset of believe in yourself believe in the work that you do. Be honest don’t rip people off. And the business is going to come. And that’s what’s that’s what’s happened in my case it’s I’m going to come immediately. No business is going to take off immediately. It takes time. And even if it does take off there are gonna be problems. There are going to be corrections. They’re gonna be down years and you have to be ready for that. So always be hustling prepare for the worst. And like you said continue to exceed expectations. You don’t want to compromise yourself your name and your word is all that you have. If my name and my word for whatever reason you just kind of went down the drain and I developed a poor reputation for myself I mean that’s the end of me socially. That’s the end of me personally that’s the end of me professionally that’s the end of my business. It’s the end of a lot of stuff. So keep all that in mind and just just be a good person be it be humble be honest don’t rip people off and and good things should happen you just have to trust them.

[00:39:58] So if people want to find out more about you know where should they go to go to.

[00:40:02] Chris media marketing Dot Com Car I as a media marketing dot com also go to the race that’s dot com. That’s my first name and last names get on my mailing list there. If you get on my mailing list we talked about a couple of my books podcast nomics marketing and Trump book go on my site get on my mailing list. Shoot me a note there send me an email and tell me which book you want and I’ll send you a free copy to your listeners and maybe reach out I’ll send them a free audio book version of whatever they want.

[00:40:36] Well I said I really kind of know I should thank you for your time. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you.

[00:40:42] All right. It’s been a pleasure Tony. Talk to you soon.

[00:40:48] Next week episode 37 is Adrian Shepherd who is an English guy who grew up in Southeast Asia and has lived in Asia for most of his life. He’s now currently living in Japan and he’s had a fascinating story. He like enough previous guest was caught up in the massive tsunami in the mid 2000s which quite really changed his life. He’s built three businesses in his time. He’s gone almost gone bankrupt twice nearly died from drowning a couple of times. So that’s next week with Adrian Shepherd. Hope you’ve enjoyed this week’s show. Please do leave a review join the facebook group exceeding expectations and I hope you have a fantastic week. See you next week.