Filippo di Lenardo

Habits & Health episode 51 - Filippo di Lenardo

Habits & Health episode 51 with Filippo di Lenardo who has launched 3SSENTIA, which is a Work-life experience platform that combines AI and the science of wellbeing to help professionals feel more balanced, energised and inspired in their day.

We discuss how the app will help people, who it’s aimed at, future developments and much more.



Recommended books:

Reinventing Organizations Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life Treatise on Efficacy

Reinventing Organizations: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage in Human Consciousness: A Guide to Creating Organizations Inspired by the Next Stage of Human Consciousness
Frédéric Laloux
Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life: Living the Wisdom of the Tao – Dr Wayne Dyer
Treatise on Efficacy: Between Western and Chinese Thinking: Treatise on Efficacy
François Jullien
Favourite quote:
To understand the limitations of things desire them – Lao Tzu

Don’t forget, there is a transcript of every episode (scroll down the page)

Habits & Health links:
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The Filippo di Lenardo interview link:

This video is related to an older episode featuring Dr. Don Wood

Jingle 0:00

habits and health episode 51. Welcome to the habits and health podcast, where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. Brought to you by an educator and coach for anyone who wants to create a healthier life. Here's your host, Tony Winyard.

Tony Winyard 0:20

Welcome to another edition of the podcast where we give you ideas to improve habits around various areas of your health. My guest today, Filippo di Lenardo, and he is a three time entrepreneur. He has a real passion and a mission to create products and services that improve people's lives. And he's created an app called 3ssential which is about a work life experience to it helps people to create habits that are going to help with their well being and to feel more balanced and energised and inspired. So we're gonna hear a lot more about this app during the episode so hope you enjoy it. habits and health my guest today Filippo di Lenardo, that I get the pronunciation right? So you're in Italy?

Filippo di Lenardo 1:13

I am Yes. Just just outside Venice in a small town called Treviso, which is actually my hometown.

Tony Winyard 1:20

Wow, we were speaking before the recording started. I love Italy, I've actually been more times to Italy than any other country on the planet, I've been there at least I think 20, 30 times or something.

Filippo di Lenardo 1:33

wow. Okay. You really are an expert.

Tony Winyard 1:37

I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I love Italy. Yeah. But you travelled quite a bit from from what I gather from when we were speaking.

Filippo di Lenardo 1:45

Yeah, I left Italy when I was 14. So yeah, I'm Italian. But really, I've been living abroad, most of my adult life. So you know, kind of New York, Switzerland, Spain, London. Now Berlin. So I just couldn't cope with the appalling weather that that Berlin has in sort of January, February. So I thought, you know, what, just come back home, you know, embracing their remote culture to the fullest. So it's pretty good.

Tony Winyard 2:16

Well, I live in England. So I'm quite used to terrible weather! So, I know you're involved in a few different things, but how would you describe to people what it is that you do now?

Filippo di Lenardo 2:33

Oh, okay. That's a very straightforward question, what do I do, I do a couple of things, my main sort of sort of day to day activities involve one in the sort of creation and launch of this new application that we're building a well being app called essential. And that really is, let's say, the main purpose of what I do and what inspires me the most. As we were saying before, you know, talking about human behaviour, understanding how to live more and more empowering, sustainable, inclusive, and even fulfilling lives, that's really my mission, and how to help people achieve that. And then I also do some some training and consultancy, on the side, where I help brands understand how they can create more human experiences for their customers so that it can actually engage them long term in a way that is more sustainable, both as a business but also for consumers, to be empowered and not just be seen as consumers, which is not a word that I particularly like, because implies a whole sets of things, which I think is not really what the world needs, in many ways. But yes, trying to make the customer experience more human and meaningful.

Tony Winyard 3:51

You mentioned briefly about the app that you you're creating, which is due at any time now. What was what was the inspiration? What made you think about creating an app to help people?

Filippo di Lenardo 4:02

Well, it's interesting because I'm not a technological person. So my background is actually in hospitality. So I when I when I was living in London, I started a business which specialises in creating very exclusive travel and events experiences for wealthy individuals in Italy, funnily enough so so yeah, I know Italy quite well. But I very early on in my in my sort of professional life because I started the business straight out of uni, I kind of realised that I needed to be mentally and emotionally and physically at my best if I wanted to kind of increase my chances of hopefully succeeding. And yeah, one of the events that I was organising I, I met this coach who was talking about how to be your best you every day. And when I heard that talk, I was like, Oh my God, that's exactly what I want. And never really kind of come across the whole personal development thing. It was just never kind of there was never really expected to it, when I heard that I was like, Oh, this is exactly what I want. So what I did is I started working with him, and that hope and the whole field of like, you know, complete passion and devotion for understanding, you know, how we operate as people what makes us tick. Because actually, in some ways, you know, hospitality and providing services and experiences is about understanding what makes people tick and how to engage with them. But I always saw it as a more as a consumer kind of perspective, rather than as an individual, what empowers you, what motivates you what makes you feel good. And so as I was working on myself, I really kind of fell in love with the with this whole world and I spent years really working and studying with with leading experts in the field of you know, behavioural science, neuroscience, spirituality, all everything that could have to do with the, with the human condition. And I was like, You know what, I want to do something in this direction. So I decided to stop what I was doing and wanted to find a way to to integrate technology just because I was kind of also a bit concerned with the with the, with the way technology was being developed as a non technologist. And I wanted to find a way to kind of combine the, the well being world with the technological world in a way that could be more immersive and more integrated into the flow of our daily lives, because I was kind of looking at various products out there, but I wasn't finding what I was looking for. And so I thought, well, maybe I can try it myself and see what comes out of it, you know, so it was really a long journey of self discovery first, and really understanding what's important to me, and what is what is the life that I want to live in that kind of led me towards this direction?

Tony Winyard 6:41

So once you started thinking about creating an I guess, obviously, you had you kind of hired some kind of experts to actually create the app itself. Was it clear in your mind from the beginning what you wanted the app to do, and how it would help people or did that happen along the way with speaking with people

Filippo di Lenardo 7:02

it happened definitely along the way, you know, not being, so I came from the approach of a coach, right? Someone that kind of understands on a high level, all the things that people should be doing, the problem is that when you translate that into technology, people are much less forgiving, they don't have the patience that you would have in a one to one. So the experience needs to be a lot smoother, and needs to be a lot less intrusive. Because when we in, you know, if we think about the way we interact with technology, we're really infants, right? We it's, it's a relatively new world, for us, even if it feels like we've been on forever, it's only like, really 20 to 30 year that we're kind of full on. So a lot of a lot of us, most of us are very instinctive when it comes to technology. So I kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do. But it obviously evolved a lot more along the way. And that's kind of quite an interesting and challenging journey to kind of evolve the whole concept. But I You know, I've definitely made mistakes and learned a lot of things, but I wouldn't go back because the learnings that you gain, you know, from all these experiences, make you better at understanding how to better serve people. So, you know, it is it is a journey of continuous discovery at the end of the day, so definitely not a clear, you know, like just one click, and it was all perfect. It's a, it's a journey. And when you when you build products anyways, it's never perfect from day one, it's actually it's known that it's something that it's never quite perfect. So it's in the nature of what we do that actually requires this continuous improvement, which is what actually makes it interesting.

Tony Winyard 8:41

There's that saying isn't there? I can't remember the exact wording, but it's something along the lines of if you wait until the product is perfect, you've waited too long,

Filippo di Lenardo 8:48

absolutely. 100% 100% There is always you know, the the temptation to kind of wait for the perfect time. But I've learned through the hard way that it's always never rarely goes as you expect. So it's kind of, I mean, you need to find a balance between something that it goes out early to get feedback, but also that is something that people are worth giving you feedback for, you know, because the reality is also I believe that nowadays we're much more spoiled than we were 15 years ago. So you know, maybe if you launched an app, you know, when the when the iPhone launched the app store people's willingness to be patient with a low quality product was probably much higher than it is today because you know, people just switch on their phone are expecting perfection. So it's kind of finding the right balancing act. But yeah, I would agree with that without saying I've certainly then I've made my my experience in that field too. So it's that as part of the journey

Tony Winyard 9:47

How will the app help people in what way around wellbeing and health will it help people?

Filippo di Lenardo 9:54

Yeah, so we kind of, because obviously, well being requires a certain An effort, right? It's kind of, I wouldn't say against our natural, instinctive behaviours, but it certainly requires some sort of effort and dedication. And so when I, when I, we kind of thought about, okay, obviously we live we, you know, we're, we're 24 hours a day, where do we spend most of our time? And most of us, the answer is working. And so we were thinking, what if we could kind of support people in the flow of their daily work experience, because that's when we experience most stress, that's when we kind of feel we need to be at our best. And so I we wanted to find a way to support professionals in the flow of their daily work experience with the goal of not only improving their levels of well being, but literally transforming the way they look at their daily their daily life. Because well being, you know, it's such a big word. And I'm big fan of kind of the science behind the neuroscience, you know, science that studies the brain. And when I looked at the neuroscience of wellbeing, I kind of saw that there are four main pillars, you know, self awareness, resilience, developing a positive outlook, and generosity. And all these four pillars, if developing, they increase massively, our levels of wellbeing. So the goal in some ways is to help people implement these, these four pillars and also physical well being in the flow of their day by basically the way the app the system works is that it asks you to check in in the morning to see how you're feeling energy wise, and based on that and your schedule for the day. What essential does it recommends, short, two minute guided wellbeing experiences that obviously are designed to come at the right time in your in your day, so that you can kind of you know, bring out hopefully your best you and your best activities while keeping sustainable levels of productivity. And so the idea is to kind of have this mini well being experiences in the flow of your day. And of course, now it's just the very beginning of the app, we have a whole vision for what we want to build. But essentially, that's the first release of what the app is going to do. And then it's going to give you some analytics to see not just quantify your effort, but to sort of track your your energy levels and your mood over time to kind of see the impact that has on your productivity and well being.

Tony Winyard 12:22

What would you say is the aim of the average user who starts to use this app? In what what would they hope to be achieving? I guess, to get familiar,

Filippo di Lenardo 12:34

yeah, well, the first thing would definitely be to reduce emotional volatility in their day, because that is proven to be a massive energy wasting, both physically and mentally. And as a result, also to improve their their energy levels. So what we have in the in the sort of, we call them well being hacks, these short two guided wellbeing experiences, and the outcome that they can achieve is either to feel more balanced, energised or inspired. So some of the some of the well being many well being experiences work more on the physical well being. So it might be some yoga, stretching exercises. Some may be more on emotional regulation, like breathing, and sort of light meditations. And others are more inspirational. So they work more in your mindset, and of kind of inspiring you to be more motivated to look at your next activity as an opportunity to thrive. And the idea behind all the these many well being axes that they always have a narrative that is kind of designed to help you look at your next activity as an opportunity to thrive. So we kind of want to make well being really integrated into what you're doing, rather than just being an abstract concept that is kind of somewhere in your day, but that doesn't have a tangible impact into actually the quality of your output. So in some ways, the goal is also to help improve your performance and productivity at the same time. But not from a place of from a place of self care, right from a place of self love and balance. Because that is where you can you can develop better performance productivity in a way that is more compassionate rather than just maybe me an ego driven thing. That's not what well being, at least for me means. So that's kind of the goal in a nutshell.

Tony Winyard 14:25

So I'm guessing it sounds like you've done quite a bit of research in in finding how to make this app be most effective, I guess for people. Yeah. So what in in the research that you've sort of come up with and in your own coaching experience and so on? What is What are the things you think that make people kind of get in their own way and stop them from progressing and living a contented life I guess?

Filippo di Lenardo 14:55

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think it also depends on the type of person you Have so you have the strivers that tend to be you know, quite ambitious people, but sometimes they forget themselves in the equation, and I'm one of them. And what I've seen from a personal experience is that we forget to love ourselves at times, right, we get so identified with what we need to achieve. And sometimes it also comes from external pressure. And so we forget that actually, if we feel more balanced, energised and present, that's going to get us where we want to be. But without fighting and pushing, but rather in a way that is more holistic, and actually a much more meaningful and enjoyable path, I would say. And that's been for me that the the biggest realisation, the other things is the typical excuse of, oh, I don't have time for this. And I love this quote, by Lao Tzu, and it's amazing, spiritual Chinese master, he says that time is a creative thing to say, I don't have time, it means I don't want to. And so this kind of excuse, I don't have time we live busy lives. And sometimes, you know, it's about baby steps and doing small things in your day that can compound to a massive difference. So my, my kind of idea was like, Okay, well, I've been there, I've said, I don't have time for this, but really, I don't want to do it. And it's fine. We all live through, you know, different flows of motivation, we're not machines. And so my goal was to understand what is the simplest thing I can do to help people integrate small nuggets of well being into their day, and just, you know, just a minute of conscious breath can actually change the way your brain is, it thinks it operates, you know, and so just one minute, so, you know, everyone has a minute, you know, no matter how busy you are, or two minutes, and so that was kind of the idea of like, oh, I need to remember to put it in my routine, I need to be motivated, you know, and it's kind of that planning, right? That tends to be the, the hardest bit. So I think it's a bit of lack of organisation in some some senses, which can be hard at times, and I would say, even bigger lack of self love, especially because we feel that maybe we shouldn't make time for ourselves. Because, you know, strong people don't do that, you know, we kind of have this image of ourselves, especially as professionals, that's, that's what I've seen. And then it's kind of death by paper cuts, right? So you kind of like, it's okay, it's okay. And then it's kind of, it gets to a point where it's like, there's no return, and then actually, you do end up losing more than you probably would have if you were a bit more sustainable in a way.

Tony Winyard 17:37

Is it aimed at, say entrepreneurs, people who have their own business? It wasn't aimed? Generally anyone? Oh, yeah,

Filippo di Lenardo 17:45

that's a good, that's a good question. Um, now we enter into like the business side of things, because obviously, there's always dynamics. Well, I'm an intrapreneur, you know, and I can definitely relate to people or freelancers that have their own gig, and they definitely have a lot of stress, a lot of uncertainty to handle. So I would say that the product is designed initially, it's going to be a laptop application. So it's actually going to be on your laptop, just because that's a predominant device that we all use to work. So we want to have something that is on your laptop that comes to you, rather than something you need to remember to get your phone and actually kind of avoid the phone in some ways. So it is designed for any professional that really is working remotely or in some sort of individual way, we are going to start initially with enterpreneurs. And freelancers, just because of we think it's a market that is interesting to target. But of course, the goal is then to spread it out to any professional really, of course, then there are, you know, companies that often buy these products, and you kind of have to then convince companies whereas when you convince someone that is a decision maker, so like myself or yourself is a different relationship, but ideally is for any any professional that is that is working in a predominant in a remote environment, I would say to make the most of the well being support.

Tony Winyard 19:08

You touched upon just now about doing things like breath work. I get the impression are there sort of videos on there showing people how to do these sort of things?

Filippo di Lenardo 19:19

yeah, so one of the things that I I kind of wanted to bring into this product, I my background in hospitality and experience building, I wanted to transform well being not into just a functional experience, but into an immersive experience. And so we kind of spend a lot of time creating these guided experiences where there's visual experiences, there are sound, there is a voice and the idea is to kind of create mini journeys, where you can either do them with your eyes closed or your eyes open, but if you do decide to keep your eyes open, we've designed like special environments with special effects so that they can be conducive and also have kind of an abstract artistic element to it. So that's something that we really want to want to push. And one concept that I'm really interested in this concept of neuro design where you kind of look at design from, from a brain perspective, and how can you stimulate the right emotions through the right colours, the right sounds the right, you know, the right audio, the right voice, so we kind of want to have this kind of multisensory, well being experienced so that it feels more immersive rather than just, you know, functional, okay to hold your breath for six seconds. And that's it, because also, that's something you could probably find elsewhere, you know.

Tony Winyard 20:32

So you talked about multi sensory. Have you looked at things like binaural beats or other sort of applications that can be integrated in

Filippo di Lenardo 20:42

half, if that's an very interesting point. So our vision with the centre is to kind of develop a deep behavioural understanding of yourself by using a whole series of signals. So the idea of sinking your smartwatch, for example, as a way to kind of track your biorhythms and your heart rate variability. But also, what we're planning on doing with the sensor is to kind of look at the way you move between the tabs and your kind of computer activity to predict if there are any stressors, or any potential risks for depletion of energy and kind of work between these different signals that we're building to create a, it's an artificial intelligence will be a kind of an AI companion that can understand and support you based on your inner biometrics, but also your behavioural biometrics based on how you interact with the with the with the laptop in this case. And the idea is to develop almost a sentiment of how you're feeling and then become a platform where third parties can come in, to kind of optimise the timing of the experience, because one of the main problems with well being applications is that their product may be good, but the timing is often wrong, because they don't have a contextual understanding of how's the weather? How are you feeling? How busy is your schedule, you know, how did you sleep, so it ends up being a fragmented experience. So what we want to send you to become as is an operating system where you are at the centre of everything and then everything comes, you know, you could sink your smartwatch eventually your Alexa, any well being app you may be using. But that becomes a lot more curated and personalised based on who you are and what you're going through. And that's kind of the division in a way of what where we want to take ascension.

Tony Winyard 22:31

So if I'm hearing you, right, so there's things that so when you were talking about wearables there's things like the Oura ring, and the Whoop app and all these, which give also, as you mentioned about HRV, and deep sleep and REM sleep and all that kind of thing. So it's going to take all that all that data, and then combine as you mentioned, with both how you're using your computer and what your your schedule that you've got coming up, and we're going to give you recommendations and on things that you could do maybe to improve your efficiency or your well being and so

Filippo di Lenardo 23:05

on. Absolutely. So let's say that give you a simple example, let's say your your heart rate variability tends to have a strong signal between three and four, and the system sees that you tend to be on LinkedIn, and that you have a very tight schedule. So it starts finding correlations between different factors and maybe the weather outside, you know, or how you slept, if you sink in your health data. So that's the idea of kind of developing a more holistic understanding so that you can manage yourself better, and then become a signal for understanding what's the best experience that you could have right now. And kind of through third parties bring those in, so that it can be more personalised and curated. That's kind of the idea of how to bring it all together. Yeah, we want to make also the experience social, so you can collaborate with people going well being journeys together. Because the vision is for us also to kind of show how the your well being can impact others, and sort of have this collaborative aspect to, to the well being experienced. So it's not just improving your well being but showing you how you can proactively impact others. And that's kind of the idea of, of collective well being that we have for a sense of just being part of essential for for me, it's not just I don't see it, as a user, I see it as a co Creator as someone that takes part of wanting to be, you know, a sort of part of something and that's why we're thinking of building a whole series of like loyalty programmes tokens, where people can also based on their well being efforts, basically transform those into causes that can be donated for NGOs and charities. So we want to kind of create an ecosystem where based on your well being efforts that can kind of be transferred into meaningful causes so that you can see that your well being doesn't only have an impact for yourself, but for the greater whole and that's that's really what I think, you know, for me, that's the that's the life I want to live right. And I wish more people Do that to see the repercussions that that working on your well being can have.

Jingle 25:07

We hope you're enjoying this episode of the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits shouldn't be easy. If you're looking for deep support to create the health and life you want, we invite you to consider one on one coaching sessions with Tony. coaching sessions give you personalised guidance to fit your unique goals and life situation. Only a limited number of spots are available. But you can easily get started by booking a free introductory call at Now back to the show.

Tony Winyard 25:37

It seems like there's so much potential for how it could grow in the future with I mean, I'm wondering for example, if it could incorporate VR capabilities for like a fitness kind of workout and, and further capabilities in the AI world to really extend what it can do have you got lots of ideas of what could happen in the future?

Filippo di Lenardo 26:00

Yes, I do. And I have to stop because otherwise I, I just stay in the future, I have a million of ideas. And I have we have a roadmap of some of the things you've touched, definitely AI is going to be a fundamental part. With AI though my The reason also why we develop the sensors, we wanted to have a conscious kind of use of data. So first of all, the data will always be yours, it should act for you, it shouldn't be a value extraction model. So absolutely. The AI should work with you and for you together. And as the AI learns about you, you learn about yourself and it becomes a collaborative relationship, this kind of human machine relationship, rather than I telling you, you got to do this, you got to do that, because that's not the relationship one establish. Blockchain is another one and a very good application for the data aspect that you can own that data and it can work for you. So through the creation of tokens, AI, the hacks that we were building now, the ones we were thinking of doing AR and VR, as well, my only concern with that technology is the danger that it could pose if not used consciously. Because imagine you live in a world that is completely parallel to reality, and you choose to stay in that world that can easily become a drug. So what I don't want us to create an experience that becomes a pill. So it's very easy to think oh, yeah, I definitely could do VR. We thought about it, but it's always okay, what's the repercussion and on a socio economic level, and that's really why we're doing this is we want to bring on most of change. So, gotta be very careful with the weather direction. But certainly, you know, the whole Metaverse, which is now a big trend, right of moving the whole our whole life digitally and virtually, is definitely an appealing proposition is just like, how can we make sure that it doesn't become a drug where people decide to seclude themselves and not live in reality anymore? Right? Because the fake virtual world feels so much better. But is it better? You know? So? It's it's a tricky one, when you work with well being in psychology to find the right balance? And yeah, so but yes, there is 1000s of possible ideas of where we want to take this. But yeah, I want to try and be as as conscious as I can to not do build a monster, let's put it this way.

Tony Winyard 28:23

You mentioned about how you will be able to draw information from other applications, such as Oura, or whoop, or smartwatches, and so on. And what about things like, there's a lot of continuous glucose monitors are getting more and more advanced all the time. And, and I've heard talk about how they're trying to develop continuous insulin monitors, and many other of these types of devices. Do would you be able to draw information from those types of things as

Filippo di Lenardo 28:50

well? Potentially, I mean, to be honest, I haven't looked into that. In that aspect of the health related, I think it will also be determined by how the market responds. We've kind of looked at like, they've definitely data in order to curate your experience. And then we kind of looked at also what kind of experiences do we bring in to empower your well being. Because one of the things about the well being that we're the angle that we want to take is have the sustainability angle so that it's you're not only working on your sustainability, but also doing well being experiences that are ethically sourced that have a sustainable, sustainable angle, that are maybe contributing towards environmental or social goals. So we're kind of trying to work towards that direction of like monitoring yourself to understand what you actually need, and how to provide you something that is meaningfully satisfying for your own well being but that also can have a positive repercussion, repercussion on the world. So we're kind of looking at at this aspect. But yeah, I mean, there is there's endless possibilities in terms of the data that you can sink in But then you have to also be careful to not overwhelm the user, right? Because it could be kind of analysis paralysis. Oh my god, I can't even move that something. My whole biometrics have changed. So we kind of need to be careful of not freaking people out right of having that kind of mysterious ness to life. That is the turning people into robots. Right. I think that's, that's also interesting to kind of look at the trend that we are going into, right, the tracking thing is a massive trend that we're all experiencing. But I don't have a wearable, interestingly enough, and I've been asking myself that question for quite some time. And I think a lot of times is the value in which the data is presented that feels a bit too deterministic. For me, I'd like something that is more like a starting point from which you can start something you know, it's it's more like, Okay, we're here. And now we can go there. Or what about if we go here, so it becomes a collaboration rather than? Okay, you've done 1000 steps, okay, your breath rate is like this. Okay, but so what, you know, like, how can we have a continuous relationship? So? Yeah, I think there's also some some magic in the unpredictability of us, you know, as individuals, so it's kind of finding the right balance, in my opinion,

Tony Winyard 31:18

What you were saying you said about not having a wearable yourself, I mean, I used a whoop strap for 18 months. That's cool. And I quite liked the data at first, for the first year or so I quite liked it. And then I started to realise, I was able to predict better, what the readings were going to be about how I slept about how my HRV was going to be, and so on. And eventually, I thought, I don't need this. I know exactly what it's going to say every day. So why do I need to keep looking at it? So I my contract ended sometime last year, and I didn't bother renewing it. And I was debating whether to get an aura ring. And then I thought, well, so the main attraction of the aura ring is the sleep data. Yes. Well, I think it's very difficult for me to improve my sleep, I get amazingly good sleep. Very good. I almost always get at least eight hours. Usually I never wake up. I feel great when I wake up. So I thought, Do I really need something to track my sleep? Because it's I'm not sure how I can improve it really?

Filippo di Lenardo 32:20

So yeah. It's interesting, what you said about whoop. So I've spoken to a lot of people that really enjoyed whoop. And it seems definitely a very, very cool concept. For me, the question is like, Well, I would almost argue that whoop, did a great job. Because in some ways, it made you so sensitive, and so able to kind of understand yourself that it kind of resigned environment. So I think they've done a great job to actually, commercially it's a weird concept. And that's always the debate with well being right? I shouldn't be so good that you don't need me. Yeah, I'm or I make you so good. So then the, and definitely I don't want to I don't want to create a product that creates addiction or slavery. So my idea there is that after a while, like you said, the data becomes a bit repetitive. So it's more about access to experiences and people as a result of that data, rather than just telling you, oh, you said like this, or tomorrow, maybe do 1000 steps more, it's more about how are you shaping my outer world based on my inner world? You know, and that's where I feel, you know, imagine you you went on YouTube. And there was, you know, you could think through and understood, that's what we're talking about? Who you could you speak to today within your network that is more aligned? Or what meaningful activities for charity? Could you could you contribute to our what great wellbeing experiences in your community? Could you could you do based on your inner world that for me is more interesting, because it's a continuous exploration. But yeah, it's interesting what you said about the, the whoop, and generally the, this, these trackers, I just want them to be a bit more human and act more as companions and facilitators, rather than just reflective, or predictive data models. And that's about it, at least for me.

Tony Winyard 34:06

I mean, we talked before I asked you before about who this might be aimed at, and my, my guess, as far as an age group is concerned, my guess or the obvious guess to me is that it would be people in their 20s, maybe 30s, who are much more receptive to this kind of thing. Is that what you found, or is that?

Filippo di Lenardo 34:24

Yes, that's spot on. What I found is exactly that. But then again, you know, maybe, maybe a slightly older age group might be interested. I mean, what I found is that women tend to be particularly interested in this product from the very getgo coaches obviously tend to be very interested in this product too. Those are the two like main light, standout kind of trends. It's interesting about the 20s I've, I need to validate this because I don't have enough data. My feeling is that is more around The 30s, I would say. And I think if I had to look back retrospectively at my life now I'm 32. And I definitely feel that in my early 20s, I probably didn't care. But although generations are different, that much about my well being it was more about just succeeding kind of thing, or is that a 30? You start looking at? Yes, I definitely want to succeed, but I'm kind of looking at things a bit more holistically. So my guess is, though, we'll be you know, around 30s. But who knows, maybe someone also in, it'd be nice to maybe be able to cater to 250, the 50 age group, which maybe also needs, you know, some some well being support. So I will remain to be seen, I don't have a magic, you know, bow, unfortunately. But yes, I, my guess would be similar to yours.

Tony Winyard 35:53

And as you speak, and then it made me think about, like sub sub cultures almost or, you know, I mean, so like, for example, there could be, it could be aimed at women who are trying to get pregnant, for example, and it could help them with things that could be good to me, and what to look out for HRV, right, wise and various other like blood pressure and various other things that could be detrimental to their pregnancy, I suppose. That's a

Filippo di Lenardo 36:21

very cool idea. I mean, one of the things that funnily enough, we were when we were doing interviews and showing kind of the prototype, they're like, does it sync with my period, and a lot of people said, sync with period and those sort of things. So that's, that's interesting, but to be positioned for an outcome, which is so important for most women, it's actually an interesting thought. I mean, yeah, there is. That's, that's a very interesting one. Actually, I never thought about it, although I should, because I'm kind of in that position two with my wife. So you've given me a good inspiration there?

Tony Winyard 36:55

Well, I mean, we could we could talk about this this for hours. I mean, it sounds fascinating. I'm, I'm fascinated by AI generally. And technology. And, and health and wellness has been my world for for some time. So it's yeah, it's something that fascinates me. So I'm, yeah, I'd be I'm interested to see how it develops, and, and what new things you add onto overtime. It's clear, it's not it looks very interesting.

Filippo di Lenardo 37:22

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's a starting point, you know, like, one has to be kind of safe focus on the on the present. You know, of course, there's a whole bunch of things that I that I'd love to do. And I have planned, but we also need to be humble enough to be like, we have to start with something we kind of have to validate, step by step, the product to make sure that, you know, the people ultimately are the ones that need to benefit from this. So that's what we need to listen to at the same time, while also it's kind of this interesting, I always have this this, this this internal and external debate. And there is this famous quote by Henry Ford that, you know, said if I asked people what they wanted, they probably asked for faster horses. Yeah. And so you know, people are not going to tell you what you want, but you got to respect whether what you're doing is actually in a improving their life. And they're, they're using it. So it's a it's a nice dance. Let's put it this way.

Tony Winyard 38:18

When is it out now? And when will it be out? When will it be available?

Filippo di Lenardo 38:22

It will be our first release will be on Monday 17th. of January.

Tony Winyard 38:31

So by the time this this episode comes out, it will already be Yeah, it will be out? I'm not sure. Is that globally or particular countries? No, it's,

Filippo di Lenardo 38:39

uh, you know, it's gonna be a Chrome extension. Okay, initially, so all you need is to have Google Chrome as a browser, and then you just it's a you installed as a as a plugin, that's going to be our first release. And then soon after, we're gonna release this part, which was, it's called the off mode. So the idea is that with the click of a button, all your work related tabs move away. Because what we found from our research is that a lot of people were having a hard time separating personal and professional life, especially in a remote work environment. So we kind of said, what if we could create this off mode where you know, you click a button, all your work related tabs move away and your screen now becomes your centralised, curated space, where you can sync your favourite Well, being apps, reconnect with great content, explore local or online events tailored to your interests becomes kind of your, your place for self exploration after work. So to help you have this kind of healthy work life balance, and the idea is that what you do off work impacts how you live your day. So to then have the AI understand how the two correlates that there can be a healthier relationship ultimately for for your own well being. That's kind of the the next step of what we'll be launching.

Tony Winyard 39:54

So if people want to find out more about this, where where would they look

Filippo di Lenardo 39:58

online, begin On the website, it's body mind heart, that's kind of the reason for the three. And there they can they can try it for free.

Tony Winyard 40:25

Can people find out more and follow you on social media, for example?

Filippo di Lenardo 40:29

Yeah, I mean, we were quite active on LinkedIn. And also on on Instagram, those are the two main channels that we kind of use. So yeah, just to kind of let people know of any challenges or any kind of, you know, content that we may create, just to kind of inspire people, and hopefully in their day, but yeah, those are the two main main channels we use.

Tony Winyard 40:55

Okay. Again, it's a couple of questions I asked most guests. And so it's a little bit different from what we're talking about now. I mean, one is, is there a book that's really resonated with you in your life for any reason that's really, really moved you?

Filippo di Lenardo 41:09

Oh, my God, there's so many. There's I, you know, I was when I was kind of opening the email, I was like, Oh, that question. As I Oh, there's so many. Well, it really depends. I mean, one book that really struck me, really struck me for human potential for the human potential is Reinventing Organisations. Basically, it's a book about leadership and, and how to create companies that are kind of living organisms where there are no like set titles, but everyone is kind of CO creates and takes ownership at the same time. And it's a beautiful example of how companies can operate and may or may not be suited for every business. But what I like about that is the is the beauty of the limit of believing in human potential and human harmony. The spiritual message behind it was what making videos I've read this exists, this is possible. So it was a great message of hope. I think that's what really moved me is that if we do empower people, and we actually let go of our fears, and our need to control, we can actually create beautiful, beautiful society, and even companies which have financial objectives and all those things, they can still have operate in harmony. So that was, that was a something that really that really touched me as a as a book, if I have to think of one recently.

Tony Winyard 42:38

And finally, Filippo, is there. Do you have a quotation that you particularly like?

Filippo di Lenardo 42:46

Well, one that always, I think it's more like a reminder for me. And it's about the Chinese kind of spiritual master that was talking about Lao Tzu. And it always strikes me is like "To understand the limitations of things desire them". And for someone that kind of likes to think big and dream and stuff like that, sometimes I catch myself trying to live that quote, because it's kind of like, Yeah, you get caught in it, and then you realise the limitation of it. So it's, it's maybe it's not the most. It's quite profound in some ways, and maybe it's very specific. But if you have to ask me, something that I kind of tried to remind myself is that but one that I tried to live by every day, I try, of course, I'm not perfect is the one by Nelson Mandela, which is I never lose, I either win or learn, I find that to be so powerful. And so just a wonderful thing. And that's a cool, great example of the neuroscience of well being at work because that practising our positive outlook is exactly that. So that's the one maybe that is more practical on a day to day level that really helps.

Tony Winyard 44:00

When you mentioned Lao Tzu just then he reminded me of a couple of years ago, I was reading, Dr. Wayne Dyer, who did a book called Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life: Living the Wisdom of the Tao, lots of quotations that Lao Tzu mode. And I was reading this book, and I was on a tube in London, and I was so engrossed with the book, I didn't just miss my stop. I went five stations past my stop! I was just so engrossed in this book. It was yeah, it's an amazing book.

Filippo di Lenardo 44:36

Oh, another book now that you gave me, I think, because I love books, A Treatise on efficacy by Julia. That is an amazing book. I mean, we could talk for hours about that book, but very briefly, it talks about the difference between the sort of Eastern approach towards achieving a goal versus the, the western approach and a It's like, it's amazing that that actually, I haven't actually I would actually change that that book. That book would be my top now,

Tony Winyard 45:09

I lived in Asia for 10 years, so I very much know where you're coming from when you're talking about.

Filippo di Lenardo 45:15

yeah, it's so fascinating. As a Westerner, you're like, Wow, really, you can be so powerful without, with surrendering, which is not really a sign of weakness, right is a sign of being aware of who you are, and where you want to be without pushing for things, you know, because in the West, we kind of have this ego driven approach. And oh, my God, that book is so beautiful.

Tony Winyard 45:37

I get the impression, we could talk about books for next couple of hours, I think I think I'm gonna finish. But I really thank you for your time and for letting our listeners know, the app. Sounds fascinating. I'm sure a lot of people are going to at least look up and find out more about it. So yeah, best of luck.

Filippo di Lenardo 45:55

Thank you, thank you very much. Appreciate. It's been great talking to you.

Tony Winyard 46:02

Next week, episode 52 with Dr. Jenny Goodman. She's been working as a GP since 1982, and is a member of the British society for ecological medicine. And she specialised in nutritional environmental medicine for the last 20 years, with a particular interest in preconception care, fitted fertility and making healthy babies. It's it's a fascinating conversation. She released a book lot two years ago called staying alive in toxic times. A seasonal guide to lifelong health. It is really a really good book. I think I've read it about three times now. We talk a lot about the book about some of the things that she talks about in the book. So yeah, so tune in next week, episode 52 with Dr. Jenny Goodman. If you know anyone who you feel will get some more value from this week's episode with Filippo di Lenardo, please do share the episode with them. And I hope you have a great week.

Jingle 47:03

Thanks for tuning in to the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on your favourite podcast app. Sign up for email updates and learn about coaching and workshop opportunities at See you next time on the habits and health podcast

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