Hayley T Wheeler

Habits & Health episode 33 - Hayley T. Wheeler

Habits & Health episode 33 with Hayley T. Wheeler who is an emotional empowerment coach, motivational speaker and workshop facilitator, helping people suffering with anxiety, depression, stress management and many similar issues.

She runs a programme called EmotionMind Dynamic and has been transforming the lives of many people. Many of whom had given up with the traditional methods of help open to them.

In this episode we discuss her programme, mental health in general, the Mental Health First Aid initiative and more.

Recommended book:

The Grief Recovery Handbook by John W. James & Russell Friedman

The Grief Recovery Handbook by John W. James & Russell Friedman

Favourite Quote:

“You are the most important person in your world and your life”

Hayley T. Wheeler



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The Hayley T Wheeler interview link:

This video is related to an older episode featuring Jo Uff

Tony Winyard 0:00

Habits and health episode 33

Jingle 0:03

Welcome to the habits and health Podcast, where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. Brought to you by an educator and coach for anyone who wants to create a healthier life. here's your host, Tony Winyard.

Tony Winyard 0:22

Welcome to another edition of the podcast where we give you ideas and ways of improving your health and, and habits around your health. Today's guest is Hayley Wheeler. She helps people with depression. And she has created a programme especially for people that are having sort of mental health issues and including depression and some other areas as well. And she's been doing this for a while and she's got quite a different approach to many other people in the in the mental health field. So we're going to hear a lot more from Haley coming up. And if you know anyone who you really feel would be helped by some of the information that Hayley talks about, please do share the episode with them. And and Why not leave a review for us as well, that enables a lot more people to find out about this podcast and learn from the valuable information that many of the guests here. So I hope you enjoy this week's show. Welcome to another edition of habits and health. And my guest today is Hayley Wheeler. How you doing? Haley?

Hayley T. Wheeler 1:29

I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me on.

Tony Winyard 1:31

I noticed I just said Hayley Wheeler basically your your your Facebook says Haley Twigg Wheeler, doesn't it?

Hayley T. Wheeler 1:37

Yeah. Right.

Tony Winyard 1:41

Okay, so is it a double barreled name? Or you just use it on Facebook? You just use that? Yeah, I

Hayley T. Wheeler 1:46

just use it on Facebook, on social media. But my business name is Hayley T Wheeler, I've kept the Twigg in that as well.

Tony Winyard 1:54

And so can you explain to listeners? What is it that you do?

Hayley T. Wheeler 1:58

I work with adults, children and families to help them reduce overwhelm so that they can find happiness again, because mental health is such a big thing at the moment. And I'm really passionate about helping people improve that.

Tony Winyard 2:12

And how did that all come about?

Hayley T. Wheeler 2:15

Well, my own battle with depression was the main thing. But I think my my battle with depression was kind of put on the backburner while I help my son with his anxiety. And instead of using any traditional therapies or medication, I decided, and I don't even know why I decided to use self discovery and self development. And teaching my son, I had to teach my son, how to understand what was going on for him. So he could explain it to me, so I could help him. And that's how I learned to understand but anxiety and mental health, really, I think the whole thing. And then once he was better, I went on my own journey. And it took me two years to kind of get to a point where I was happy again.

Tony Winyard 3:05

And so when you say sort of self discovery, was that not reading lots of different books, or looking at how different therapists are doing things or was involved?

Hayley T. Wheeler 3:15

No, it was it was just about us in quite questions using using my past to inform where I was now, trying to understand what I been through in your wall, my son had been through him, and how we got to that point, and recognising all the emotional impact and things that had happened. So for me, it was about looking back to be able to go forward. And it was it was it was a massive thing.

Tony Winyard 3:44

And what made you take that route? Why did you just not rely on the help that is generally offered in different places?

Hayley T. Wheeler 3:51

I don't have an answer. I really don't know why I just I think when it came to the crunch, I decided I knew there was a point in time where I'd had this irrational thought and I knew I had to do something. And I had to do something for both of us. And I was feeling on I felt like I was failing miserably at that time. So I I decided that I was just going to help him it's obviously easier to help other people, isn't it? So I went on this thing to understand what he was I needed to understand it. So I asked him questions, I got to think in a different way. And it was really he didn't know what anxiety was. I didn't know how to describe anxiety to him. So it was kind of I suppose it was a natural instinct, whether a parent instinct or just as a human being, but I just needed for the both of us to survive. So I didn't think about anything else.

Tony Winyard 4:48

One of the things you just said was I realised I think I forget exactly how you were that a bit or something about I realised I had an irrational thought, well, that's quite a bit of awareness then it's not is that Something that many people you help realise they have that awareness that they're not thinking rationally.

Hayley T. Wheeler 5:05

Yet a lot of them the, there's a confusion around because you have rational and irrational thoughts. But mine was particularly obvious because it was it was kind of really loads. People have a real mixed bag of I know this isn't right. But this is what I'm thinking. So it's a real mix and confusion of, of both of being irrational as well as rational but you just can't control will be irrational.

Tony Winyard 5:39

Is there a particular type of person that you help or I can tell you when you get said demographics like age groups, john? Yeah, is a particular time

Hayley T. Wheeler 5:49

where my clients have ranged from the age of six up to eight D So

Tony Winyard 5:57

and there's no like a I don't have a particular job or way of thinking or

Hayley T. Wheeler 6:04

not really it isn't there's not been mine is quite bizarre, because I think we've had discussions of me around trying to sort of nailed what people get out of the programme. And it's all different. I've looked at 20 different clients, and they are different people, their results are different, even though the programme is a particular way. Because it's the way I suppose is delivered is unique to each person. There's no it does, I don't have sort of a common thing, I suppose with with clients.

Tony Winyard 6:41

So let's talk more about that the programme that you just mentioned. So So you've put together this programme, and it's to, I guess what the aim is just to help people help themselves. So what would you say is, is that what the program's about?

Hayley T. Wheeler 6:52

My, when my mom do it, self knowledge is a superpower. And that is what the basis of the programme is, it's all about helping the individual understand themselves, so that they can make a decision so that they can decide what what happens in their life and the choices and, and their behaviours as well and their actions. And I think that kind of empower women to understand yourself changes everything.

Tony Winyard 7:20

Is there a typical? So what is it that stopping people from getting to that point in the first place is, is there a common cause that a lot of people have a common factor that many people are facing? Or is everyone quite different?

Hayley T. Wheeler 7:35

Well, it's the it's that confusion. Because you, you are so confused by what's going on. And there's conflict between the rational and the irrational. There's been able to function on a day to day basis. But then you you are feeling like you can't cope. So you may be functioning, but you feel like you can't call but but is that an inability to be able to communicate to yourself, let alone to other people? what is actually going on? And you just don't understand it? And people say to you, no, why do you feel like this? And I often get out with children, parents as children, why do you feel like this? And I have to save them? Stop asking them Why? Because they don't know. They cannot describe to themselves or to you? What is going on? Until they come and work with me? And then they can they understand and are able to say to parents what to say to partners or to say to other people, I understand that this is happening for me now.

Tony Winyard 8:33

I mean, one where she was saying I'm wondering, Is this like how many people have this sort of suffer from this? Is it quite rare? Or is there is a lot of people if you've got any idea?

Hayley T. Wheeler 8:43

Well, the Official UK statistics is one in four struggling with some kind of mental health disorder. I suggest that because of the way it's worded, that suggests to me they haven't actually done it's more of a guest than it is an actual questionnaire they've put out to find out. Because I think you'd be surprised at how many people struggle without even saying anything.

Tony Winyard 9:11

And is this links to either no negative voices in your head and so on, or is it is it separate from that or is that part of it?

Hayley T. Wheeler 9:21

From my own experience when I I had negative self talk, so I was already used to negative self talk. You know, I always felt like I was overweight. I always felt like I wasn't good enough. I knew I had all these things going on before. So when I slipped into it being even worse. I didn't really know dessert. It wasn't one of these things. I woke up one morning and life was rubbish. For me it was a slow descent into it. And then there was a at the end there was a real fast spiral after an incident with a counsellor.

Tony Winyard 10:01

And so what was the incident when a counsellor

Hayley T. Wheeler 10:04

at the time are you the, the thing that made me feel like I was doing okay, the thing that held me together, even though I was completely struggling, was that I was being a good parent. And my last appointment with this counsellor, she told me she didn't want to see me anymore because she couldn't help she didn't think she could help me. And at the same time, she made a comment, which was not it wasn't malicious, it was just a statement and an observation that I had left my children down, I kind of put my children at a lower priority than I had in my head and not sent to me spike. That's what that was. That's the kind of that was January 2015. And by July 2015, I was at the bottom I was I'd hit rock bottom. And that was a quick descent into it.

Tony Winyard 10:58

And do you think there was any truth in what she said?

Hayley T. Wheeler 11:04

Well, I can I can rationalise it No, I probably there was I'm probably that's what stone then when I speak to my children, they will disagree.

Because there were days when they didn't know this, but there were days when I did not want to do anything. I didn't want to be anywhere. I would just I just wanted to press pause on life. But I would take them to the park or I would you know we had a day. In that summer it was really bad rained on your we had a day when I took them down to I told a guest No, Stefan, we are going, we're going jumping in the puddles. And I didn't want to be there. But they still have the memories of jumping in the puddles. They didn't see inside my head, but they would disagree. So I don't know, maybe there was an element of truth in it.

Tony Winyard 12:01

Do you have any thoughts as to why there is so much why mental health is getting so bad for so many people in

Hayley T. Wheeler 12:09

the way I work is about the emotional vessel, an empty emotional vessel. And I think we've there's not enough emphasis on the connection between emotional, physical and mental health together. And I think we were very focused on one or the other. You know, we don't tend to focus on the Mall. And I think that that isn't the support and help or the understanding around mental health as as, as we need it to be on even like, even even professionals, medical professionals are dead, even they. Okay, so one of the things I think I can, I've worked with a group of people who are institutionalised, they've been in and out of institutions since they were young, and I'm talking about people in their 60s 70s. And I asked the question, have we lost the person when you have a diagnosis for mental health, mental illness, and it was a result and it was 10 people in the room, there was a resounding yes. We have forgotten the person. And life is such a distraction that we don't we don't, you know, who, who now puts invests time in themselves over and above their phone, or their technology or TV or movies? Because it's easier to do all our stuff. And that is to work on yourself.

Tony Winyard 13:49

And I guess, I mean, it's a real world. For my I mean, I don't have a lot of experience with mental health. But from looking from the outside, it's my perspective, and it could be completely wrong. So please do correct me, but my perspective is there. The stigma used to be really bad, and it's not quite as bad now. But I'm guessing that for people who are suffering from it, it must be very hard to admit it to anyone. Is there any truth in any of that? I mean, that's just guesses from my point of view

Hayley T. Wheeler 14:19

Yeah, I think that the having that discussion again, if we go back to the fact that I can't I can't actually articulate what's going on for me. Hi, can't actually open that conversation with somebody because how do you tell somebody what's going on in your head when what what's going on in your head is off the charts? You know, people wouldn't understand it. And is

Tony Winyard 14:40

it is it embarrassment that you wouldn't want to tell anyone or just because you could don't know how to articulate it.

Hayley T. Wheeler 14:46

I think the first part is not knowing how to articulate it. The next value is fear of rejection, fear of judgement, fear of just being ostracised, or you know, how will they react? How will they know See me again? What will they think of me? If I tell them I'm struggling with my mental health?

Tony Winyard 15:07

And it's the, again, this is just a guess I don't know if this has any truth to this, my feeling is that 1020 years ago, the media didn't give any kind of the way they portrayed This was making fun of it, and it wasn't no understanding, but I, I get the feeling things are better now. Is that any? What do you think of that?

Hayley T. Wheeler 15:30

I think that I don't think that they, I think they still fall into the trap of, you know, taking the Mick out of things and, and portraying things a specific way. But I do think we're getting better at recognising that actually, that is an it's not helpful to do that. But I'd like to see as, as human beings become more aware and more confident in talking about things like this.

Tony Winyard 16:04

And that's the case the number of people who have some kind of or, or have had or even do now have some kind of mental health issue increases. There's therefore that many more people offering some kind of assistance. So how, what is different from what you do to many of the other programmes and therapies that are being offered.

Hayley T. Wheeler 16:27

I know that a lot of people who come to me have been to some kind of therapy, whether it's counselling, psychology, psychiatry, they've had something and often it's, it's for them, it's about they have a short term, I suppose improvement in life, but then things start to slowly go back. And I truly believe it's because we, as a society, therapies are aimed at getting people to management levels, a manager symptoms. And so we constantly still find ways to feel better to hold ourselves together, whether it's something like running or yoga or journaling. But the problems are still there. And that sort of is why you people end up going backwards and back into feeling how they're feeling. So what I've done is I've got two levels past management. For me, the most important thing is, is that self empowerment, that change element where you're actually facing emotions, you're, you're processing emotions, and you're letting go of emotions. And then we get to empowerment, because by you, if you if you're constantly trying to manage something, you're constantly trying to find something to manage that, that symptom or that feeling. Whereas if you've gone and you've actually got to the root of the problem, and you've dealt with the emotional root, you can move into empowerment, and start to make those choices and live the life that you want to live. Rather than constantly finding something already, this isn't working anymore, I need something else to help me. So my thing is not have a manager get the empowerment level.

Tony Winyard 18:09

And so when they get when you're two people, you're helping patients, I don't know if that's the word you use, but when they get to that level, is it a case then of they no longer have the negative voices or they just understand it better?

Hayley T. Wheeler 18:23

They understand him or you know, that there is no such thing as as affection. There's no such thing as as you know, life is always going to be roses and laughter. But it's recognising how it impacts them as an individual. So this is going on in my life. What is going on for me? How do I want to deal with this? And unempowered being empowered to be able to decide what happens as a result. Okay, so this has happened in my life, how do I want to react, respond, and then that changes the outcome.

Tony Winyard 19:00

So from what you just said, that suggests therefore that a lot of a lot of people who are seeing therapists and many programmes that are available aren't really are still still have the issues afterwards. Is that is that the case and

Hayley T. Wheeler 19:13

that's what I've been told is that people come to me and they they've been to some kind of therapy CBT is another one they've been to and the the issues are still there. So they're not actually dealing with the issues that they're just learning how to manage what is going on for them. Even you know, I've had children on odd has been told you just have to live with us forever.

Jingle 19:36

We hope you're enjoying this episode of the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. If you're looking for the fastest and most effective way to transform your energy and wellbeing, we invite you to join Tony for an upcoming habits and health workshop. This five week group workshop will empower you with tools to disrupt unwanted how habits and make positive changes easy. You'll enjoy sound asleep, better energy, less stress and a happier mood workshops begin on the first week of every month. And you can sign up now at Tony winyard.com Now back to the show.

Tony Winyard 20:19

You talked about that you work with children and adults is it much more difficult working with children and trying to help them but no it's not

Hayley T. Wheeler 20:28

Oh, they get it far quicker than the adults do. is

Tony Winyard 20:31


Hayley T. Wheeler 20:32

Yeah, it is it really is they because they want to learn they're still in that learning phase and they still in school and still, everyday is a learning day. So when they can and you know when you've got a child who doesn't understand themselves and maybe mum and dad don't understand what's going on for them either. They come and they learn in the first session is all about the quarter model and understanding internal patterns and behaviour analysis all of a sudden they understand why they're hitting out why they're shouting why they're screaming rather than self punishing. And that that's that changes there just enough first that when the changes from the first the initial session before we start the programme because that that level of understanding is there

Tony Winyard 21:24

so therefore why is it that adults find it more difficult now

Hayley T. Wheeler 21:29

they usually guard there's a lot more emotions they usually have learned to protect themselves. So do when the work the in depth work to get to the root of the problem is it can be quite difficult it can be quite emotional. So children shouldn't haven't been hardened maybe to the to needing to protect themselves as much as the art as they work with.

Tony Winyard 22:00

I know you've recently been working on a programme and you've had funding from sort of various institutions Am I ever Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Hayley T. Wheeler 22:07

Yeah, so I've been working with started with the life science hub in Cardiff. And then what they do is we put a proposal together and it goes out to the universities as part of the Excel programme. And Cardiff School of Medicine picked up my programme and said Oh really, you know, we really want to work with you on this. So part of that is business development. And I wanted to have a paper written on the effectiveness of my programme. So Bangor University this year agreed to write the paper on the effectiveness of the blended option because there is an online version but this option is where you do do it online but you have three coaching sessions as well and email and WhatsApp support and that's going through we've got 21 people in roles currently we need another nine but it's gone really well and I it's been really hard because it is my baby and online I wasn't 100% sure how it was going to work out when I'm face to face and obviously you have more influence so I really sort of this has been quite an exciting versus a really nervous thing to do for me but I'm I'm getting some really good feedback just from the online stuff without the coaching sessions as well.

Tony Winyard 23:26

So you're finding ways of reaching people now doing online that you weren't sure that you were able to before?

Hayley T. Wheeler 23:32

Yeah, I suppose I was I lacked the confidence that the online so I just kept piling stuff into online so as much as so the online is literally everything that I do in the face to face and more because it's 31 units. It's a real comprehensive programme is it isn't a tick box exercise and I am passionate about it not being a tick box exercise, that it actually works for people. So I suppose that being the nerve wracking betters is what did work for people online. And luckily, well firstly, luckily I have the skill I don't know which way to put that but it is working is it's really getting people thinking and, and really investing in themselves.

Tony Winyard 24:14

So the I'm presume what the objective is at the end of the programme that everyone is in have a much better understanding of of themselves and being able to handle their sin for the ongoing future.

Hayley T. Wheeler 24:27

Yeah, and they get to do the deep work as well. So there's units in there that I deal with, with face to face clients, there's the deeper root getting to the root work. And that's kind of where I suggest people need the support in terms of having the coaching sessions before they can handle life. The the final units in this in the programme are all about maintenance is about building a foundation to make sure whether this is a long term change, not just a short term thing as as, as I've talked about other therapies being

Tony Winyard 24:58

busy depend on So at the beginning of this, someone comes to you, how much of a factor? Is it? Like what level of depression they've got maybe? Or what type of mental health conditions they may have? Is there some people who are just have too many that they're beyond help? Or what would you say on that?

Hayley T. Wheeler 25:17

I think it's gonna depend on how much intervention they have elsewhere. Because I haven't worked with anybody who has schizophrenia. You know, my aim is to work with low level depression and anxiety, stress. But I have been asked by medical professionals, if I wouldn't, so that that, for me is something that I would need to look at and see what are the support would be necessary for that. But I've had people come in or telling me they've had PTSD, and had some amazing results.

Tony Winyard 25:58

For people who are listening to this, who, maybe they've got a close relative, child, or a close friend, who maybe they suspect is, has got some kind of an issue? What How would they what would you think would be the best advice to help that person that that their child, their friend, whatever,

Hayley T. Wheeler 26:26

I, I'm always keen to see people do what works, you know, have those open conversations with relatives. But the difficulty is when you're when you're feeling like that you sometimes feel judged for somebody, if somebody was to approach you with you already feel you're judging yourself before somebody else is judging you. But if you can have those open conversations and start conversations about what would help you. But then it doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's effective. And finding the right thing is so important.

Tony Winyard 27:06

I guess the hardest part will be actually starting that conversation in the first place.

Hayley T. Wheeler 27:10

It is you know, I work with different organisations. And we talk about how to have these conversations because it is difficult to open a conversation, particularly if they haven't approached you. But what you'll find is that people, often not always, but often drop hints, because they want to test the waters to see if you are somebody that they could open up to. And I think the biggest thing to remember is if you're opening a conversation, they may not want to talk to you today, or tomorrow, or next week. But you've opened the door. If you can open the door in a non judgmental way and just let people know that I'm there if you want to speak you know, I've noticed you're not yourself recently how things go when those kind of openers are not they're not direct. They're just a way of opening the door and say yen. Look, I've noticed and I'm here if you want to better support

Tony Winyard 28:11

as you've developed the way you work and the way you help people over the last six years from from Mike and Mike what you said before, is there I'm wondering, for example, have you helped anyone who's saving suicide or law or I'd like really sort of bad depression and what kind of results have you been able to get for people.

Hayley T. Wheeler 28:29

I've had a few who have one who didn't tell me at all, but he'd been suicidal when we started. And his results have been amazing. He's changed jobs, he's he's improved his family relationships, his relationship with his wife, his kids, that is has been a heck of a change for him. had another one who he told me every week that he'd been to the edge of the of the sea and contemplated and he was the one that told me I don't think this is effing going to work. And then at the end, repeated inside I didn't think I sit down with an effing young lady was gonna work for me and it did but not been suicidal since not had the urge to go and sit even and contemplate my most recent client she had attempted to take her own life prior to starting with me a few weeks before and they told me they quite often told me I don't think this is going to work particularly if they've had some kind of intervention previously. But her life now is completely different to the quality of life The how she gets up in the morning and how she attempts to go through her day is very, very different and she's got three sorry four doctors, and even that's changing the relationship she has with each person in her life is changing as well.

Tony Winyard 29:55

And I guess these people are you've got really good results for even though You've got great results from there is still a stigma about mental health. And so there many of them would be reluctant to give you your testimonial, I would guess.

Hayley T. Wheeler 30:08

Yeah, it's really tough because who wants to talk about it, who really wants to tell people that they they've been in that dark place? testimonies are not too bad. They just never, they never have a name attached to them for confidentiality reasons, if somebody is willing to put their names within us fine. But it is difficult because word of mouth for me doesn't then happen.

Tony Winyard 30:33

What I mean with the whole kind of pandemic situation over the last couple of years, my hunch is that there's I've got a feeling when we do see this to statistics, and maybe they are available, I haven't really looked for them. But I've got a feeling there's going to be a horrific number of suicides and so on over the last couple of years have you do know anything about any that kind of thing.

Hayley T. Wheeler 30:55

I haven't seen any form of statistics. But there's, there's a suggestion that the numbers of people taking their own lives has gone up quite a lot. And it's not just our does, we're talking children as well, we're talking youngsters who are doing it, because they just, it's been such a change for everybody. But I noticed quite early on last year that people would, who had maybe, never really understood mental health and other people have mental illness and other people were all of a sudden finding themselves struggling with life, struggling through their day, having those intrusive thoughts having irrational thoughts, and, and all of a sudden, they found themselves in those shoes that they didn't never, not only didn't believe, but they didn't understand well enough.

Tony Winyard 31:52

In January this year, I did a Mental Health First Aid course, which was amazing. I mean, there was so many things that I had no understanding of, or things that I thought I had an understanding of, but it became very clear that I didn't you know, during the course during doing this course, so for anyone listening, I definitely would recommend I mean, there's there's Mental Health First England, I presume there's mental health, Wales, and yeah, there's many places you can do these types of courses, ginger, anything about that?

Hayley T. Wheeler 32:20

Yeah, I've done the adolescent when I've done yard dealt one as well. And they were informative. And I've just in fact had an email about redo when it but I don't know what the additional information would be doing it the second time, but I know the certificate runs out every two years, I

Tony Winyard 32:36

believe. Yeah, I think so. But they are

Hayley T. Wheeler 32:38

you know, I always when I work with organisations, I always advise people to go and have a look at those courses to bring people in, even if it just improves understanding. Because that can that can make a difference. Because one of the things when I run I run courses for sports coaches, for juniors, because I think it's important, it tends to be more male orientated. And I think we do tend to need more awareness reason. And they'll say, you know, we don't talk about mental health or mental illness is one of those spaces. But I do say that people need to go and understand better have a better understanding of what it is to live with a mental illness because I come from a lived experience. So when I deliver my session started with the lived experience, rather than sort of the medical side of it. But people don't understand it. They don't tend to the better after the workshops. But um, we need some more we understand that we need more people in a position of knowledge, I suppose.

Tony Winyard 33:46

So do you think it would it would be well, I guess, and this is an obvious answer, but it'd be helpful if a lot more people took that course such as Mental Health First Aid.

Hayley T. Wheeler 33:56

Yeah, because it opens conversations and I'm one of the things I joke about is that and I kind of joking, but I'm not. If you think of somebody who is struggling with with their mental health, and any miracles around the office and says that there's a Mental Health First Aid training course or there's a mental health workshop, and most people don't sign up to it. How do you think that person feels? How do you think it has a knock on effect somebody whether would I go to that person, you know, they're not interested in it, if they're not interested in going in for training to understand it better is that somebody I could open up to and it kind of reinforces the stigma around mental health. So I jokingly say that if you haven't signed up to my to my workshop, man that that can have a knock on effect, but actually, that is true.

Tony Winyard 35:00

Did your the programme that you do, do you have any I don't know, aspirations or where you'd like to be able to train other people to be able to go out and deliver this as well.

Hayley T. Wheeler 35:12

Yeah, that's that's part of the Excel programme with the business development is licencing to be able to have as many facilitators in school as if we can, for our desert in the community, but my long term goal is to have a recovery ranch here in Wales.

Tony Winyard 35:28

And so what would be involved in

Hayley T. Wheeler 35:30

just having a place where people can come and do the programme either as a day, and then they just come in and they do their session and they maybe if they've got time to stay for the day with the ranch, or they come for three months and do the programme over three months while they're immersed then, you know, living on the ranch and and taking part in all the things that happen on the ranch?

Tony Winyard 35:52

And how I mean, you mentioned about the universities that are involved in this and you said something about white paper. So what what is involved in that and where where do you hope that would go.

Hayley T. Wheeler 36:02

So part of I support as part of my lack of confidence in my suppose my credibility was not having qualifications and not having sort of back. And so I've done my Masters I did a Master's two years ago as part of my credibility building. But this paper for me is about having somebody else write it, somebody else who has nothing to do with the programme, they write the paper, they speak to the clients, they do all the research into how effective it was, so I don't even see it, that side of it. And then I, I've got a sort of a university back and I support has appeared, but that's not written by me, either. That's, you know, isn't by yours for a year. And they they are all next with a reflection on how effective it is or not. And, and if it proves to not be effective, then I have a foundation to to make changes and improvements to it. I'm hoping that's not the case, but I'm open to it. But um, yeah, I'm hoping that it just demonstrates that this process works

Tony Winyard 37:11

well, with changing, changing the subject a bit or whatever, it's not completely changing subject, because I know the answer to this question, but is there a book that you've really enjoyed? That's really sort of moved you in any way?

Hayley T. Wheeler 37:23

Yes, part of my junior year was the grief recovery Handbook, as well as the grief recovery module like the cold counsellors, and a chorus of ours. And that book was integral to building the foundations that allowed me to be able to build on that without discovery and become the happy person again.

Tony Winyard 37:48

And when when did you read that?

Hayley T. Wheeler 37:50

That was 2015.

Tony Winyard 37:53

So it was around the time that all this was happening.

Hayley T. Wheeler 37:55

Yeah. So this, so in October of 2015, is when I started sort of helping my son and myself, so

Tony Winyard 38:02

Wow. So if people listening, want to find out more about you and the programme, and so on, where where would they look,

Hayley T. Wheeler 38:10

they can find me on any social media platform as Hayley T. Wheeler, there's also Emotion mind dynamic Facebook page and Instagram page. That's all new at the moment. And that is a website for emotion mind dynamic as well, which is https://www.emotionminddynamic.co.uk/ .

Tony Winyard 38:31

And so the name of the programme that you referring to before is emotion mind dynamic? And finally, Hayley, before we finish do you have a quotation that you like?

Hayley T. Wheeler 38:43

It's my own quotation. I love this one. And I think it's really important. Because people don't realise it. "You are the most important person in your world and your life", regardless of what are the roles you have. Because if you don't look after yourself, nobody is going to do it for you. And you can't be the best parent, the best business owner, the best partner, if you don't look after yourself, and I know that people struggle with that. But I think it's really important.

Tony Winyard 39:15

Yeah, we had an episode, probably about three months ago, I guess, with Andrea Pennington, who's a self compassion expert. And I remember one of the things that she said was when talking with someone who is really sort of beating themselves up all the time, and she said, something to say to someone who's doing that is don't talk to my friend like that. And that that really kind of learned them for why that's so powerful, you know? And if she says when she's done that to people, it has made them really stop and think

Hayley T. Wheeler 39:49

it's what it is you would very rare. Would you speak to anybody else the way that you speak to yourself in your head. We are we are we are harshest critics.

Tony Winyard 40:03

You know, self self compassion is so important. Hayley, it's been an absolute pleasure. I know we've been speaking about doing this for a long time. We've eventually done it around. Yeah, thank you for sharing this really important information. Yeah, I have a lot of people get some more benefit from me on. It's been great. Next week is Episode 34 with Jonathan McLernon, and he is a nutrition coach. He has a company called Freedom Nutrition Coaching, and he offers personalised nutrition coaching that really tries to fit the lifestyle, personality and goals of the clients that he's working with. So we're gonna hear a lot more about nutrition and how nutrition is helpful for so many different areas regarding health. That's next week's episode with Jonathan McLernon. If you know anyone who could really benefit from some of the information that Hayley shared with us regarding mental health and depression and some of those areas, please do share the episode with them, because it could be really helpful. I hope you enjoyed this week's show and see you next week.

Jingle 41:09

Thanks for tuning in to the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on your favourite podcast app. Sign up for email updates and learn about coaching and workshop opportunities at TonyWinyard.com See you next time on the habits of health podcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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