HVF001 – Introductory episode

Tony Winyard – Health, Breathing, Sleeping, Mindset & Movement Coach

Welcome to the introductory episode of Happy Vs Flourishing with Tony Winyard and co-host for this episode, Morton Patterson.

You may notice on the podcast artwork, many words and phrases within bubbles? In this episode we explore what those words/phrases mean in relation to this podcast and learn more about what the podcast is about and what things will be covered in future episodes.

The words featured on the artwork are:

Optimal breathing
Increasing good stress
Sleep quality
Providing value
Amor Fati
Ancestral health
Emotional intelligence
Functional medicine
Best version of yourself
Exceeding expectations
Memento Mori
Carpe Diem
Regular Movement
Reducing bad stress
The 4th sector
Deo Valente
The Golden Mean
Yes and…
Over the next few months there are some episodes lined up with some fascinating guests that will answer questions such as;
  • Why does our footwear cause us so many postural problems?
  • How can we be kinder to ourselves and to others?
  • Do you know how much damage soap causes to your skin and microbiome?
  • What simple changes can you make to improve sleep quality and mood which also reduce medication and pain?
  • How we can learn to understand other peoples actions and thoughts for better relationships in business and social.

Laughter Yoga in the UK and globally – https://laughteryoga.org/

The Fourth Sector

Some details on co-host Morton Patterson:

He is the founder of Morton Patterson Consulting, an independent Business Consultancy based in London, incorporating the internationally renowned Marshall Goldsmith Stakeholder Executive Coaching certification.
Before successfully launching his own business, Books Talk Too, one of the first niche audiobook business in the UK, he worked as an IT Consultant for Ernst & Young in London. He returned to consulting several years later and started advising companies in Professional Services, Technology, Construction, and Health Care. Some of his clients have included Grant Thornton, East London Business Place and the Canary Wharf Group.
Morton’s expertise focuses on Value Pricing, helping clients to sell on value and not price to increase profitability.
His portfolio of services includes Coaching, Consulting, Training, Facilitation and Keynote Speaking. The programmes on offer are: Ask Morton, The Know Your Value Pick and Mix and The Know Your Value Business Development Action programme.
He is also a writer who writes a weekly memo called the ‘Morton Patterson Business of Value Memo’ and was a contributing author in the book Translating Coaching Codes of Practice. He is an excellent facilitator, listener and first-class communicator, who has delivered seminars in the UK and abroad on Business growth, Knowing Your Value and Charging Your Worth.
To sign up for his weekly memo: https://mortonpatterson.com/contact/
Happy Vs Flourishing links:

(some of this will be renamed in the next few days!)

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How to leave a podcast review:

Tony Winyard 0:00
Happy versus Flourishing, Episode One

Welcome to the brand new podcast Happy versus Flourishing, where we explore different ways of improving quality of life, having a more fulfilled life, a good life and just getting different experts on every week with little tips on different things how we can improve aspects of our health, and even aspects of our business such as increasing prices and providing more value and so on. In this episode, the introductory episode we're gonna hear a lot more about the type of things that we'll be hearing about in the future. If you're a previous listener to exceeding expectations, the last episode was last week, which was Episode 100. And it's now been replaced with this podcast Happy versus Flourishing. I hope you will stay subscribed if you like the content that you hear in this. And why not share this episode with other people who you think might get some value from this, and why not leave a review? Let us know what you think about this. That really helps to get the word out and they see that other people have liked it. And then other people are more likely to listen to the podcast as well. So this is the introductory episode. Hope you enjoy.

Welcome to the first edition of Happy versus Flourishing. And this is the introductory episode, and with me is a man by the name of Morton Patterson. How are you Morton?

Morton Patterson 1:51
I'm very well, thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Tony Winyard 1:55
Well, Marton and I go back a long way we've known each other... I'm not going to say how many years but it is quite a few odd; maybe 80% of our lives! If you were to look at it as a percentage, it's a long time.

Morton, tell us, what is it that you do? You've got your fingers in a few pies, and there are some areas that we cross over, but you've got a great way of doing things but do you want to tell people about what you do?

Morton Patterson 2:26
Thanks, Tony. What I do is, I work with service professionals and I help them to sell on value and not price. To increase the profitability. And basically the main focus of my business and consulting is working with business owners and independent professionals who are struggling with how to really identify the value of the work because they often go in because they lack self esteem, or they don't really understand how much of a difference that they've made. I help them to understand what that difference is. The whole programme that I offer of services is really called 'Knowing your value', how to know your value, and sell on value, and not price. And I do that through coaching, I write a weekly memo, which is called the Morton Patterson business memo. And I'll be following in Tony's footsteps in, I'm going to be doing a podcast very soon, but at the minute, that's what I do.

Tony Winyard 3:24
We'll dig into more of that later. But, this episode in it being the first one is to really let listeners know a bit more about what this podcast is all about. Because most people, I presume listening to this will have probably previously been listening to the exceeding expectations podcast. And this has got a different aim and content and different types of guests. So we're just going to explore a bit more about it. What this podcast is about so for you listening who have maybe listened to previous editions of exceeding expectations, this will tell you more about what this podcast is going to be about. So Morton, he's going to ask a few questions so he can get it straight in his head exactly what the podcast is about. And in him doing that, you'll also find out exactly what this podcast is all about.

Morton Patterson 3:44
The interesting thing I wanted to say quickly is, Tony, you're a man of many books and many words, and every time I speak to you I learn a new word, or learn of somebody new. And so I have a couple of questions, Believe you me that I really want to ask you for you to explain some of these words, which I've just been familiar with through you. But I think let's start with a very simple one.Which is, what does Zest mean?

Tony Winyard 5:04
I guess anyone listening, hopefully you'll have seen the artwork for the podcast? Around the artwork are bubbles with different words or phrases within the bubbles. And one of the words is 'zest'. I've tried to make it more in the foreground. So it's very easy to spot, because it's a really important word. All of the words I think are important, but this may be more so than any other and it's because it's about enthusiasm and energy and doing things with a with a real love. So that it's something that you really enjoy doing and you come to it with great energy and it doesn't seem like work. It's not necessarily related to work because it could be about a hobby that you you have or can be about spending time with your kids, or your partner, this can be used for many different areas of life.

Morton Patterson 6:02
I suppose that's when people say he or she has a great zest for life?

Tony Winyard 6:07
Yeah, exactly. And also, I don't know about you, but I just love the sound of the word.

Morton Patterson 6:14
Yeah. It has a great sound to it. Another word that really just jumps out at me that I'm looking at on this list of words, I'd love to understand more, which I think we all take for granted is 'justice'. In the context of your podcast, and in the context of what you're trying to do here, what do you mean by justice?

Tony Winyard 6:43
I think people just look upon justice as in the law. And, if someone is someone guilty or not, but justice is so much more than that. It's about how we treat people and are we treating them fairly. It covers a few different areas, I would say it's kind of similar to the word fair,

Morton Patterson 7:03

Tony Winyard 7:05
It's really about, doing the very best, in our own lives and not just our friends but for everyone we meet, not to ever try to cause any harm to anyone. It's, about being an honourable person, I guess.

Morton Patterson 7:31
Right. Okay. So you tie justice in with honour?

Tony Winyard 7:36
Yeah, I do.

Morton Patterson 7:41
Right. Is there any other thing? I mean, sometimes we look at justice in the form of law and legal thing We want justice. Can you explain that to me a little bit?

Tony Winyard 7:55
Well, there's to act unjustly. Is inflicting injury or harm on another person but many people will know of Cicero, the ancient Roman politician and and he has a quote he said: "Men are induced to injure others in order to obtain what they covet". It's about treating people fairly and not just trying to do what is best for you... what is good for you, but is also good for others, so that you're not just coveting everything you can possibly get. You're not just trying to be really narcissistic about things and just trying to do what's good for you and without giving a damn about anyone else. So it's about looking out for yourself, but looking out for others at the same time so that you're trying to help yourself while you help others.

Morton Patterson 9:02
Right? Okay, that kind of explains it more. I think one of the things I've learned along the journey of life is, when I used to learn new words, I used to hear that one of the best ways of remembering them was to write them down and use them three times so that it sticks in your memory. And there's one here, I really would like to understand what the meaning is. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to use it in everyday language, but it's eudaimonia. What does that mean exactly?

Tony Winyard 9:32
In ancient Greek times, the philosophers like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, they used to refer to this word all the time. Especially Aristotle, in his ethics, he talked about eudaimonia. Often when we see it translated these days in English, it's usually referred to as happiness, which is really not a good translation because it's much more than happiness. It's more about flourishing. It's about living a fulfilling life, living well, it's about a good life. And it's much more than simple happiness. So you could say eudaimonia. Or you could say, that you're trying to live with eudaimon.

Morton Patterson 9:34
Ah, I see. Can you be in a state of that?

Tony Winyard 10:23
Yes, that's really the essence of this podcast because the name is happy versus flourishing. So this is really what it's all about. A lot of people pursue happiness. And it's an aimless pursuit. You can't really pursue happiness. It's something that happens while you're doing other things, while you're enjoying something, but just trying to pursue happiness for the sake of happiness just seems madness to me. But whereas you can be in a state of eudaimonia, you can be flourishing in the way that you go about things, in a way that you have a zest for life, in a way you enjoy life. And so that's why this podcast is called Happy versus flourishing, because it's better to aim for flourishing for eudaimonia than it is to aim for happiness. That's something that comes about as you enjoy life.

Morton Patterson 11:17
Right? Okay. Well, you know, now I've learned a new word for a start, but I've also have a new understanding or a different way of looking at happiness and flourishing. Okay, um, I'm hoping I'm gonna pronounce the next one. It's really interesting. 'Arête', What does that mean?

Tony Winyard 11:46
So it's another ancient Greek word, and not all of these words are Greek but there's a few of them are ancient Greek. I was just talking about Socrates Plato, Aristotle; they used to use this a lot and it means excellent. It's what we're trying to aim for in what we do. All of us have got flaws, and none of us are ever going to be perfect. So it's not about being perfect, but it's trying to be as good as we possibly can be in whatever it is we do, whether that be for work, or for our relationships, or our you know, with our partner or our children or whatever.

Morton Patterson 12:30
Is that the pursuit of excellence?

Tony Winyard 12:34
Yeah, it's about trying to be as good as you can right now knowing that you're never going to be perfect. It's not about the pursuit of perfection, because that's impossible. And it's pointless. But it is about trying to be as good as you can be. Knowing that you're always going to make mistakes, there's always going to be flaws. And there's always going to be times when you treat someone unfairly and then afterwards you think, Oh, I wish I hadn't treated them like that, because we all make mistake. That's part of life.

Morton Patterson 13:05
There's one word here that I really want to ask you about, because we assume the meaning of it, but it would be great to get a good clear definition. You're saving me having to go on Google, by the way. So it's a good lesson. 'Wisdom'.

Tony Winyard 13:20
Well, it's funny about wisdom because, I think, typically wisdom is just about being wise and knowing a lot. But when I used wisdom here, and I had to because of lack of space on the podcast artwork, I wanted to put 'applied wisdom', but I was trying to fit everything in and there were so many words and phrases, so I just put wisdom, but really, it's about applied wisdom, because wisdom on it's own doesn't....because there's no point in reading loads and loads of books if you just take in all that knowledge and don't do anything with it, that's just a complete waste of everyone's time, especially your time. So applied wisdom is about taking that knowledge that you've read in books or that you've heard when you've gone to a course or, a conference or whatever it might be, a workshop, and then actually doing something with that knowledge and applying it to your life so it improves your life, improves the lives of the people that you love, those around you as well. So that's really what I mean by that.

Morton Patterson 14:30
Okay. Another one that really comes to mind that I'm looking at is 'energy'. How is that going into the whole concept regarding your podcast? Wisdom and now energy. What are you thinking?

Tony Winyard 14:52
Because energy is essential in everything we do. Energy is all around us. On our planet or on every planet, we're just surrounded by energy, and we are a ball of energy. We should be always trying to use energy efficiently. And so what I mean is how we create energy and how we use the energy. So for example, if we get good quality sleep and a good quantity of sleep, we then build up a lot of energy. And if we use that efficiently, so if we're exercising, which actually, again, increases the energy further, as opposed to if we're sedentary every day, we just waste it. Using energy really inefficiently. And by doing things like meditation and relaxation, that again, it uses energy better, and it gives us more energy as well. It relates back to Zest because one meaning of zest is about energy. So yeah, energy is really important, I think because we we can use it efficiently or we can use it really inefficiently.

Morton Patterson 16:10
Hmm. It's true. It's funny how those really simple words wisdom, justice, energy, we hear them in everyday life but the practical applications, practical meanings are so important, and if you were talking about flourishing and Arête, I'm thinking of another one. You mentioned having good sleep. What is 'increasing good stress' because you think of stress as a negative thing, stress management, suffering from stress, but tell me a little bit about increasing good stress?

Tony Winyard 16:50
The reason that we exercise, whether it be maybe running or going to the gym and using weights, we're putting stress on the muscle. And that breaks the little fibres. And then the muscle repairs itself and it gets slightly bigger. That's good stress. And we need a certain amount of stress, we can't live without any stress at all, it wouldn't be a very good life at all. To have good stress like that. It's great. It's really good for the body and it helps us to to improve and there's many other types of good stress not just upon the muscles.

Morton Patterson 16:53
Okay, what I didn't realise that you've just taught me is this thing that we need to have stress in our lives without it. I suppose there's an element of balance says how I suppose it's how you manage the stress.

Tony Winyard 17:52
So if it's too much, obviously too much, what we consider bad stress is obviously hugely destructive in So many ways.

Morton Patterson 18:00
Yeah. So you were talking about stress and how we're managing it. And then another word that you've told me about, and I really want to understand a little bit more is sleep quality.

Tony Winyard 18:18
There's pillars that in our life that we have to... some really important pillars of life. And I would say they are sleep, nutrition, relaxation and movement. Sleep is probably the most fundamental because it's the most important thing we can do because when we don't get good quality sleep, and, quantity and quality go hand in hand when we don't get good quality or quantity of sleep. We then tend to be much more moody. We don't cognitively work as well. We don't treat people as well. It affects us in so many negative ways. It also really affects our energy. We just don't have the energy to do things, we're much more lethargic. We're much more likely to have an accident on the road. When people get six hours of sleep as opposed to eight hours of sleep, the probability of being involved in a car crash goes up hugely and is equivalent to being drunk.

Morton Patterson 19:29
Well, okay. I want to go back to getting the definitions of a couple of Greek and Latin words because the sound of them is really attractive and really kind of cool. So, the original Latin speakers may be aghast at how I'm pronouncing these things, but I'm trying; 'Amor Fati'?.

Tony Winyard 20:02
That was really good. Amor Fati. It was actually coined by Nietzsche. A literal translation is a love of one's fate. It's about being enthusiastic about what happens to us because typically we tend to think of if something bad happens, then we get all upset about it and wish that thing hadn't happened. But what's the point because it's already happened. So it's much better if we just accept what's happened. And, i Amor Fati they would say, and then have an enthusiastic acceptance, absolutely love what happens to you, even if it's seemingly bad, because how many times what we think is bad. in society, like we lose a job, we're made redundant or we have a breakup, with a girlfriend, wife, whatever leaves us; but then you look back at it in say five years time and it was a really good time. Because that led to something much better you now have a much better job and much better relationship. So often in life what we think of is bad here turns out not to be bad at all.

Morton Patterson 21:09
That's interesting. It's difficult to accept it at the time, that you should love your fate, whatever that may be. And what was really striking is how even in Latin and Greek times they had these words for experiences that today when we think about how can you love your own fate, but even way back then they were thinking of these definitions.

Tony Winyard 21:21
And what is the point in trying to fight against your fate? Who's gonna win? If something's already happened. It's pointless.

Morton Patterson 21:46
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fate FA T E. It's something that's gonna happen. It's predestined. And I think another word that really comes up for me is 'Ludus'?

Tony Winyard 22:07
The word love in English is such an inadequate word for what it really means because we use it to mean so many different things. And the Greeks had seven different words for love.

Morton Patterson 22:24

Tony Winyard 22:25
Yeah. So let me try and remember all of the Greek words for love, they, they were much more descriptive. So they had Eros, which was about romantic, passionate love. Philia, which was about affectionate love and love in a friendship. There's Agape, which is about selfless or universal love, and love for strangers and so on. There's Storge, I'm not sure if I pronounced that right, which is about sort of familiar love, or a natural form of affection between family members, right? There was mania, which we all know that word that was obsessive love. When love turns to obsession that becomes a mania. Ludus, the one that you mentioned just now, it was playful love describing the situation of having a crush and acting on it or the affection between young lovers.. And two other forms, there is pragma, which is enduring love, which is love built on commitment, and which is not a love that people have in the early stages of a relationship. But after people have been with each other a long time, they're much more likely to have pragma, which is a real, enduring love, and it's something that's just built up and built up and relationships got better and better.

And the last one is called, and I'm not sure if I pronounced this one correctly, Philautia which is self love. Because too often many people treat themselves so badly and they have negative self talk and self worth issues. We we have to love ourselves before we can love anyone else. If we don't love ourselves, it's impossible to properly love anyone else.

Morton Patterson 24:08
So how do you spell that, because those different versions of love are really interesting. So how do you spell that?

Tony Winyard 24:16

Morton Patterson 24:21
Well, okay, great. Now, here's a question for you that really struck me when I was listening to because you sound like a Latin and a Greek expert. Were you really good at this school, Tony?

Tony Winyard 24:32
No, I wasn't funnily enough. I was terrible at school. Well, that's not completely true. So in my junior school, I was doing okay, I wasn't doing great. And then when I was about nine, my mom gave me a set of Encyclopaedia Britannica. And for some reason, I just read these from cover to cover. I just fell in love with them. And all of a sudden at school I started shooting up and I was going from being very middle of the road to being... I wouldn't say I was the best in everything, but I was starting to do really well. And I was certainly in the top classes for everything whereas before I'd been in the middle class. And then when it came to going to senior school, I actually lived in quite a rough council estate in Kilburn in northwest London. I had the grades to attend Marleybone Grammar School,

And that's where my mum told me I was going. But the council estate I was living in and the uniform I would have to wear to go to that school. I would have been beaten up every day by the kids that lived around me and I thought there's no way I am going to that school. I want to go to the local high school where all my friends are going. And it's probably the only time in my life I ever won a battle with my mum about something so important. She told me you're going to Marylebone grammar, and I said, Well, if you send me their I'm not going to go to school, Because I'm I know I'm going to get beaten up every day. So eventually, she agreed that I could go to the local high school. But what happened when I went to the local high school, in the first year, I got 100% in every exam in maths in physics and English, everything. And, at that time I was wearing glasses. And so people started calling me "Joe 90", "Brains"... And when you're a kid, you don't want to be different. And so I deliberately started not doing work, playing around and not doing homework and just trying to fit in with everyone else. And I carried that on for way too long. And so at school I didn't really do that well. And it's only been in the last 10 years or so I've suddenly developed this insatiable hunger for learning. I read probably a couple of books a week and, so I wasn't really into all this stuff at school no.

Morton Patterson 26:53
But here's the thing. What is interesting, in what you've just said, it wasn't so much about, you weren't really so much into that stuff at school, you weren't really great at school. It was the story around it. And that probably explains why you're doing this podcast why you started exceeding expectations. And the reason the question came up is because you could explain so clearly, all the different types of love, your knowledge is quite extensive. But it's raised so many things. The thing about peer group pressure, the thing about how we don't allow ourselves to get into our brilliance and to flourish, how we prevent ourselves from growing to our true potential, and what your life would have been, if you didn't allow that to get in the way of trying or being acceptable and just went for more loving Tony more, as he was then. You know, and being more, and that is what's amazing about it, So in, just asking that simple question. Opened up that whole new world of understanding about you. So let me just come down to something a little bit. Because what it did, it led me to a word, which I think is really, it made me curious. So what does curiosity mean?

Tony Winyard 28:17
Well, curiosity is so important, isn't it. To be curious about life. And again, because if you're not curious, then I just imagine life would be really boring and you're much more likely to be depressed if you're not curious about life. And there's so much about life that we don't know. What was it Socrates said about it? The only thing I know is that what I don't know anything, or something similar to that, there's so much that we don't know. And I think that's why this discovery or re discovery in the last 10 years or so, this insatiable hunger for learning and reading more and more and more Because I'm just curious about so many things.

Morton Patterson 29:07
Interesting. So is it that you think a key part of being successful in life is just being curious?

Tony Winyard 29:14
Yeah, I think so because it means you're more likely to enjoy life. You're always looking for new things, always looking to try, go to new places, maybe try new foods. You're much more want to be meeting new people and have new experiences; that all ties to curiosity.

Morton Patterson 29:36
Yeah. I think and tell me if you think I'm wrong. I think a person who is curious leads to them being to some degree, maybe inquisitive and that inquisitiveness. I think and this might be a personal thing can lead to courage. And what does courage mean?

Tony Winyard 29:44
It's really having the courage to be unconventional, might be to do things that other people think are weird or strange, the courage to, face misfortune, the courage to face death, to not be worried about death, about taking risks, and holding to your principles and just speaking the truth, speaking your mind.

Morton Patterson 30:31
It's really interesting because when you think of courage, and then you thinking about the courage to face death, then it might be the courage to face your fate, which is the Amor Fati. So those things must be aligning in some way.

Tony Winyard 30:47
And that all ties in with, there's a phrase on in the list called memento mori,

Morton Patterson 30:51
exactly. I was just about to ask you to tell me a little bit more about that.

Tony Winyard 30:55
Momento Mori; people often misunderstand this. So the actual translation means "remember you must die" and peoples initial thoughts are what? How morbid is that, but this was something when we see these films with the Roman Emperor in his chariot. And in Roman times, there was always a guy behind him whispering in his ear, memento mori, while all the crowd were cheering and worshipping Him and telling him how great he is. This guy's whispering in his ear, memento mori. And it's about when you realise or remember that you're going to die, it actually helps you appreciate life more, which you don't just take life for granted. So by remembering that you're much more likely to actually enjoy life and not fear death because there's no point in fearing death because it's going to happen to all of us. So just live life the best you can.

Morton Patterson 31:53
Absolutely. And with that momento mori knowing, don't fear death, knowing we are going to die at some stage. What I've heard it in the film, but remind me you know give all of us a better understanding I'm sure of Carpe Diem

Tony Winyard 32:15
Whenever I hear Carpe Diem I immediately think of DellBoy in Only Fools and Horses,

Morton Patterson 32:20

Tony Winyard 32:23
I forget how he used to describe it, but that actually means seizing the day, is enjoying being in the present and not just thinking about the future all the time, which is what so many people do.

Morton Patterson 32:38
It's seizing the present and the future.

Tony Winyard 32:44
It's about enjoying the present, I think in doing what you can now and not worrying too much about the future. Just enjoying the present, enjoying right here right now. Enjoying this conversation.

Morton Patterson 32:58
Okay. I tell you what I'm interested to learn a bit more about is something that you've mentioned, which is, I think you've spoken about reducing bad stress, about courage and curiosity and empathy is the word I'm looking at; empathy. Now, I think that's a word that's commonly known. And we measure people by whether they're empathic or not. But what do you mean?

Tony Winyard 33:32
I think it's such an important word, especially in these times because there's so many political leaders don't seem to possess any empathy whatsoever. And empathy goes hand in hand with emotional intelligence for me, and it's about really trying to show empathy for everyone, not not just friends and family, trying to put ourselves in, other people's shoes. And thinking about what they're going through, and just having some some empathy for people, you know, one of the situations at the moment, we have all these headlines in some of the newspapers about how they're really trying to force their agenda again, to get people to hate the refugees that are coming in. And they show no empathy whatsoever. And again, trying to do the normal, division or dividing people. But if we had more empathy for these people about the situations they've been facing, and why they're having to pile into a boat, which they know may well capsize. So it's, just having some consideration for others.

Morton Patterson 34:42
Yeah, I mean, you know, this, that's not the purpose of this podcast in the sense of my comment, which is that, you know, I have lived in certain places for 10 years, 15 years, and in my house in South London I've been in nearly 23 years. What must it be like to uproot yourself and leave the country that you're living in and going, who wants to leave their home and family in their homeland, in their domain, so interesting. So, that leads me I think into a word that I really want to understand cuz it's the opposite the antithesis of it. What does anti fragile mean?

Tony Winyard 35:21
There's a book called Anti-fragile, by Nassim Nicholas Taleb.. It's a really good book it's about, when you're fragile, you're much more likely to be living in the victim mindset and always believing people are doing things just to you and, I just can't see how anyone could enjoy living that kind of life, you're more likely to be angry and bitter and resentful. So anti fragile is the opposite of that. We talked about stress before, how stress can be a good thing. So if we can invite some stress into our life, to go headfirst into obstacles and things that are seemingly bad. And by doing that we're much more likely to learn how to get over these these kind of obstacles. And so next time, it's not going to be any issue at all because we're used to dealing with that. And so it's inviting failure and learning from failure. And so being anti fragile is just, yeah, bring it on, I can handle that. And just making yourself stronger.

Morton Patterson 36:41
Right, so is that another way of saying resilience, being able to recover from resilience being able to recover from setbacks?

Tony Winyard 36:53

Morton Patterson 36:54
Because, it might be said that some people, they're not strong enough, being anti fragile is being able to handle those situations that may be difficult. Is that right?

Tony Winyard 37:05

Morton Patterson 37:06
Right. Okay. I see, it seems such a disarming word like how could there be such a word, but it makes absolute sense when you have the anti of fragile.

Tony Winyard 37:20
Well, I'm not sure it is actually a word. I think that he made this word up, I seem to remember him saying that there isn't a word called anti fragile...He was saying what is the opposite of fragile. And so he made up this word, and he called the book anti fragile. And I think it is in the dictionary now, because it was used in the book and it's been used in many articles and so on over the last few years.

Morton Patterson 37:45
You know, what's coming up for me? That's really interesting to know that's something that's been added to, let's say the dictionary, what's coming up for me is you are many years later, creating your own encyclopaedia Tony. Yeah, cos in talking to you today, you sound like an encyclopedia. It's really interesting. So the range of words that we have discussed today. And your breadth of understanding and reading is truly amazing. But let's lighten it. And let me just talk to you a little bit about general words that we take for granted, another one, which is laughter. Right? Yeah. Is that the intention of creating that in your podcast? What do you mean by laughter?

Tony Winyard 38:37
Well, and I'm not sure if we've had this conversation. So about a year and a half ago, I became an instructor in something called Laughter Yoga.

Morton Patterson 38:48
All right, okay.

Tony Winyard 38:49
Do you know what laughter yoga is?

Morton Patterson 38:52
Um, no, but I'm sure you can tell me right now.

Tony Winyard 38:58
Laughter yoga is not really much about yoga involved in it all

Morton Patterson 39:03

Tony Winyard 39:03
It's about laughter. And because when we laugh, we release so many feel good chemicals, our body, our brain just releases all these feel good chemicals which circulate all around us, And I can't remember the stats now but when you do a session of laughter yoga, essentially at the beginning of it, you're kind of forcing, you're kind of faking the laughter. Usually it's done in a face to face environment. Obviously, at the moment, that's more difficult, but usually there'll be maybe 7, 10, 20 people, whatever in a group. And you might be doing things like throwing a balloon to each other and coming out with some crazy word or your doing silly games. And initially, you're sort of faking the laughter but very soon, and I mean, within minutes, that laughter becomes genuine and then it's very contagious because, when someone's laughing a lot, you're more likely to laugh and when you've got everyone in a room is just laughing, genuinely laughing. It's very difficult to not laugh yourself. And it soon becomes a situation where, every time I've gone to a laughter yoga session, by the end of it, it's usually 45 minutes an hour long. I've got a stomach ache from laughing, which is the best kind of stomachache to have because you just feel so good. Your body exudes all these feel good chemicals. And you leave that place feeling amazing. The very first time I did a Laughter Yoga session. And at the time I was doing it, I still was doing workshops for people. And one of the things about workshops and your know this is that when it's a full day workshop and people are just sat down in a chair and trying to take all this information in that you're giving. There's only so much that they can can take in before they get bored. Before they're not engaged and so on. And so I was looking for ways; how can I change the atmosphere? How can I change the mood? and within minutes of doing this, immediately I thought, I've got to learn how to do this. So I can do a little bit of this in my workshops and completely change the mood and just get people buzzing and energised. And then not only does it make them feel good at the time, but it also then helps them to take in more information because they're just, they're in a different state.

Morton Patterson 41:36
Interesting. Yeah, it changed, I agree that we release certain endorphins in your body, and you relax and look at things very differently and, and forget the stress and strains of the day I think is always good. I think is very healthy. Another one that, I think is really interesting to understand because it has different meanings is the word 'Present'?

Tony Winyard 42:10
And people aren't present, are they?

Morton Patterson 42:11

Tony Winyard 42:13
How many times have we been? Well, not so much us because I think when we meet, we're pretty good. but I think there's a lot of people when they meet, in a bar or in a coffee shop or for a meal or whatever. And one of the first things that many people do, is they put their phone down on the table in front of them. So that's really telling you they're not really 100% focused on the conversation with you, there's a little bit of focus there on that phone, because otherwise why have the phone on the table? Why not just leave it in your pocket or leaving in your bag. And having that phone there it just ruins so much about life now because people are far less focused. Now. They're much more distracted. Being 100% present in any interaction you're having with someone shows how much you honour and respect what they're saying, and you're truly listening to them and you're completely focused on them at that time.

Morton Patterson 43:17
Yeah, it is. It brings about a completely different connection when you are present, when you say the word you think of, I'm going to give you a present. But I think even if I'm going to give someone a present, or I'm going to give you a present, that is not as powerful as being more present in a conversation. And what I want to focus on now; and I must say, the whole concept of your podcast in explaining and discussing all of these different areas is fascinating. 'Yes. And'?

Tony Winyard 44:04
Have you ever done improv?

Morton Patterson 44:07

Tony Winyard 44:08
So it is the cardinal thing about improv. So for anyone who doesn't know what I mean by improv improvisation, it's a form of comedy. There's improv workshops around, and the basic thing about improv is that you have to think with this mentality of "Yes And". So someone asks you to do something. And you never say, "No", you always have to think on your feet and say, yes, and let's do blah blah.... So it could be that I say to you... and these are imaginary scenarios that people are coming up with in a simple situation. And I might say to you, "and you have to pretend to be a dinosaur" and you're going to say, "Yes, and a dinosaur that hasn't had any breakfast and I'm a really grumpy dinosaur". And then you tell me some crazy scenario and I have to go with that. Even if at first I might say, well, I don't know how I'm going to go with that. But you've just got to trust your brain that you're going to come up with something creative and not block it. Blocking it is by saying no. Then it can go it can't go anywhere. There was a programme that used to be on TV, it was one of my favourite programmes: "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" That's all improv, coming up with things on the spot. If you ever go to the Comedy Store in London, on a Wednesday or Sunday night, they have the Comedy Store Players, which is all about improvisation, and it's absolutely hilarious.

Morton Patterson 45:50
Really. Okay, now, I suppose when I read that, and you said "Yes and" I was thinking of "Yes but", everything before the but doesn't count. I was thinking of the film; when I'm gonna ask you to explain this one to me. 'The Fourth Sector', what does that mean?

Tony Winyard 46:16
The Fourth Sector, it's an emerging sector of the economy, which consists of, for benefit organisations, and they rely on combined market based approaches of the private sector with social environmental aims for public and nonprofit sectors. And it's about trying to do things for causes that you really have a... you're really concerned about. You really have a feeling for and so for example, this was introduced to me by a guy called Barnaby Wynter. And what many big corporations are aiming to do is they are trying to starting situations where they're giving away 40% of their profits to causes that they believe in. And so something that I'm intending to do in the next couple of years, is that I want to do the same. I want to give away 40% of my profits to things that I really care about. Such as, I have a really hatred of factory farms. So I want to support causes that are aiming to reduce and stop all the factory farming because it's horrendous in so many different ways. Not only the treatment the animals get, but what comes from it that people are eating is making them sick, and they don't realise. There's so many bad things about factory farming. But yeah, the fourth sector is about really trying to help causes that you really believe in so it's more than just charity. It's a level above that.

Morton Patterson 48:02
Oh, I see. So it's a level and cause that I'm passionate about. And who is part of the fourth sector? That's interesting?

Tony Winyard 48:14
So it's only started in the last couple of years. And there's not so many people have taken it on board yet. But it seems to be more and more corporations are starting to implement this. And there's a drive now to try to get more big corporations and companies to join. Obviously, it's not going to be something for everyone because some companies, CEOs, directors, don't care about anyone else. So it's only going to be companies who are really ethically driven and really want to help people and neighbourhoods and, much more than, just trying to get as much profit as you can.

Morton Patterson 49:03
What's interesting is that we've spoken about the fourth sector, which is about something that's beyond the charity, cause it's something that's much more personal to yourself, not to say that charities are not. And then we spoke about being present and listening. But I wrote an article recently about listening and you've got one of the words that you're talking about is going to be part of your podcast is 'Listen', tell me your understanding of it.

Tony Winyard 49:31
Well, you know, there's the old, which now seems like a cliché, about we have two eyes and one mouth. And they should be used in equal proportion. But it's so true. A lot of what I've done the last few years is similar to you about the whole value thing and trying to give as much value as possible. And when it comes down to sales, there are so many salesman who don't listen to their client at all, it's just, I'm going to do a sales pitch, and I'm going to tell you what I've got to offer. And they don't really listen to what that person wants. It's just about what they're going to give. And if you don't truly understand what someone's wants and needs are, then how can you properly really meet their expectations? How do you really know that you're doing a good job for them? And so I think listening is so important. I discovered it when I was a wedding DJ. One of the reasons that I did so well as a, as a wedding DJ, I would always meet with prospective couples that were interested in booking me. And for the first 15 minutes I tried to do as little talking as possible, and I just tried to get them to really tell me about their personalities and their likes and their dislikes and what they'd seen at other weddings and about their family and about their friends and what kind of thing they were aiming for, and so that was listening I just think is so important.

Morton Patterson 51:03
Optimus. I think I have an understanding of where it comes from and what it means. But tell me a little bit more about Optimus. Because I think you know, it'd be it'd be great to understand where that word comes from. Its origin? And also what you mean by by it. You know what the definition is of it.

Tony Winyard 51:27
So optimism comes from the Latin word 'Optimus', that actually means best. So it's about expecting the best is going to happen. And even if you don't think that the very best is going to happen, but if you're optimistic, and you think things will get better, instead of worse, it's about that kind of mentality. The opposite of pessimism where the expectation is everything is going to go wrong, and then you're inviting things to go wrong because you're in that mindset. So it's not about that. It, it's not about just of not seeing the bad. It's not what it's about at all. But it's about being in a frame of mind where you're looking for for good things and you're looking for the good things in other people and situations and stuff.

Morton Patterson 52:18
Right. Okay, so you're looking for the good in yourself. And you notice, yeah, okay. People talk about health all the time. But this word has really stuck out for me, because I'm thinking What does it mean? ancestral health,

Tony Winyard 52:40
In today's society, we have so much disease, and sickness and it seems to be the norm. Well, it's almost abnormal now to see, especially someone who say is past 30 or 40, who's not on some kind of medication who has not had surgery for something. People seem to think that it's normal to be on various medications, that's not normal at all. This relates back to the factory farm thing I was talking about, the food that we eat, especially the processed food that most people eat. And the colas, the sodas, which is just full of sugar, it's just so toxic. And because of the the food and the drinks that we consume and lack of sleep and the huge amount of stress that people generally put up with on a daily basis. That's just bought on so much disease. So ancestral health is about best practice as in living, trying to live a life and trying to eat the way that our ancestors did. many generations ago. I mean, hundreds, even thousands years ago, where everything was essentially plant based food. And it was meat that hadn't been injected with antibiotics and stuff so it's eating good quality meat and but mostly plant based food and nothing that comes in a packet and is full of sugar and toxins and chemicles.

Morton Patterson 54:23
I suppose that rings through because you know if we think of our parents, my mum when she was alive for most of the time when we were getting older, we used to say my mum's skin was just amazing. It was like a baby's bottom, we used to say, you ate all the stuff, all the good stuff and then we were born here and we had to eat all the stuff that gives us spots, pimples, this and that because I couldn't believe in to her 60s, 70s, my mum, not not so much her health because she slowly deteriorated but her skin and I attributed it to the way and what they ate those years ago, which has nothing to do with ready made and sugar based and you know what I mean? It is plant based, you know? And that's talking about our health, our organs, how we live and how we operate and those who are ill and who have sicknesses. What does the word mitochondria mean?

Tony Winyard 55:26
Mitochondria is so important in so many different ways. It kind of comes back down to the whole energy thing we were talking about before. It's these small, tiny membranes. And it's just the source of all of our energy, really, the chemical energy needed to power the cells and the kind of biochemical reactions and it's stored in a very small molecule called ATP and it's just a source of all our energy. It goes back to when before when we were talking about energy and sleep and meditation and so on. So mitochondria is hugely important.

Morton Patterson 56:12
Right? Okay. A couple more I just wanted to give I just wanted to ask you, before we wrapped up; 'Ikagai'?

Tony Winyard 56:30
Ikagai. And I might have even pronounced that wrong. I lived in Japan for six months, it's a Japanese concept, that means it's about the whole reason for being having a purpose in life. What makes life worthwhile and about taking spontaneous actions and about the meaning of life and having satisfaction is really what it's about it's closely related to another Japanese word, Kaizen.

Morton Patterson 57:10
I was just about to ask you about that. Tell me a little bit more about that?

Tony Winyard 57:14
That means change for the better and always looking to constantly improve. Before we were talking about this sort of insatiable hunger for learning I had so it's about always trying to learn, being curious, just wanting to know things and not just simply plumped down in front of a TV and whatever comes on you just sit there, it's a very different mindset to that.

Morton Patterson 57:43
Right, I tell you what has come up for me and talking to you about this. There's a couple more words and I'm going to tell you what it all comes up for me. 'Deo valente'?

Tony Winyard 58:01
Deo valente, I lived in Muslim countries for quite a while, I lived in Syria for a while and I lived in Indonesia for a long time and a phrase I used to hear all the time which is: 'Insha' allah'. Which is god willing or fate willing and it's similar to amor fati, so it's about maybe we make an arrangement to meet tomorrow for lunch at three o'clock and then I might say to you at the end of all the arrangements Deo valente or insha' allah, we're going to meet fate willing, if the trains down break down, if the restaurant doesn't catch fire, whatever it might be if everything is okay we will meet tomorrow at three o'clock.

Morton Patterson 58:50
rRght, okay, Deo valente Okay. And so two more if I may because they're jumping out at me and I'm thinking that they're equally important; 'Equanimity'?

Tony Winyard 59:04
Equanimity for me is about staying calm and not letting all the stresses of life get on top of you. Composed even in a difficult situation because often that's the time we need most to be in that kind of state. When we're in a stressful situation, the worst thing we can do is being anxious and not thinking properly because then that just makes it worse. We can act with equanimity and calm and have some composure we're far more likely to come out of that situation in a way that's best for everyone involved.

Morton Patterson 59:57
Right. Okay. And actually, you know, Before you explain that, I had this thing of equality. When I thought and I heard of the word equanimity. What has come up for me is this whole learning is I'm going to wrap two words together. And maybe as we talk about it, you can give me the jewel explanation. I'm grateful. And I want to use word gratitude and grateful for the opportunity to do this podcast with you and to look at these words because I've learned so much. The other part of it is I celebrate our relationship and our friendship going back. x y, z years. Maybe u v, w x, y, z.. I celebrate that. so I'm grateful. I'm looking at the word which is part of your podcast, gratitude, which is celebrating. And the other word is encouraging, I'm encouraged. And I find it encouraging that these words have all been great learnings to me, it is encouraging for me to learn them and to be excited by them. So, wrap up for me if you don't mind, 'Gratitude', 'Celebrating' and 'Encouraging'.

Tony Winyard 1:01:30
Well, I think gratitude is such an important word, isn't it? Because by being grateful for what we have, rather than always just striving for more and more and then as soon as you get that new thing, and then just immediately forgetting about it, generally it doesn't lead to having a happy life. But when you're grateful for what you've got, you're more likely to especially for our children and our loved ones, because often we can just be take them for granted. And we're just trying to get more and more money working more and more. And just thinking, well, I've got my children and they are always going to be there and then suddenly, they're 20 years old, and you've hardly spent any time with them. And they don't really think of you as a father, because you weren't really there for them. But if you're always grateful for them, and then you're more likely to spend time with them on a regular basis. Every week, not just a couple of times a year when you go on holiday. So that's gratitude, I think is so important and it means you're more likely to appreciate the things that you have in your life, the material things, your family, your friends and so on. And celebrating I think it goes hand in hand with gratitude because if you're always striving for new things, and then once you get that new thing you don't pause to to be grateful for getting that thing you just go straight on to try and get the next thing, then thats no way of living a life. But if you can have an aim to get something, and then when you get that thing, then you pause and you celebrate, Wow, I've got that goal that I set, I got that promotion, or I got that car, whatever it might be. And then you celebrate it, and then you appreciate that, that new car, that new job, whatever it might be, is a much more fulfilling life. I think. If we always encourage each other, we're gonna, all of us will move move forward more so rather than criticising each other, if we can always be showing showing each other encouragement, we all gain from that really.

Morton Patterson 1:03:52
Right. I want to say one last word, which I think I'd like for you to explain because when I look at Carpe diem, amor fati, memento mori. eudaimonia. And then I think about, the general words that we've used such as gratitude celebrating, encouraging. What really resonates in my heart is temperance. And so, I want to ask if I may in closing, because this has been great is, What do you mean? What is meant by temperance

Tony Winyard 1:04:36
Is really is about self control. And not being too hedonistic in things and always just going for the pleasure of, which is a very sort of temporary thing. For example before we talked about courage If you have way too much courage... I suppose this is related to fear. So if you have no fear at all, that's reckless. Whereas if you're completely absorbed with fear, you've just way too much fear then that's cowardice. So the halfway point between that is courage. And when I say halfway it probably might not be halfway for some people it might be a third it might be two thirds, where is the point where that courage where you don't want to be reckless? You don't want to be a coward. So, I think temperance comes into this. It's about for everything in life, there's always that kind of golden mean, it's not necessarily the average, but it's the point where that works for you in your life, but which might be a different point for me in my life,

Morton Patterson 1:05:54
Right. Okay. Great. I'm going to leave here today with so many words that are really new to me but a couple stick out;, Ludus Arête, but also in the context of Ludus; Pragma which is enduring love. I was familiar with with memento mori, but that's just reaffirmmed it. The Fourth Sector really stood out for me. And another one was anti fragile. I used to talk about just knowing one word and then using it for the rest of the day. I think I've got about seven, maybe more to commit to memory, which I've already put in my journal. So, yeah, thank you.

Tony Winyard 1:06:57
And thank you But what I'm hoping is over the episodes in this new podcast happy versus flourishing, each episode, we're going to explore some of these words in much more detail with an expert. In someone, for example, we've got a guy called Massimo Pigliucci, who's a professor in New York. He's got three PhDs in in biology and philosophy and in something technical, I forget. The guy's amazing what he knows. And so for example, in that episode, we're going to go much more into some things around sort of ethics and wisdom and all areas like that and applying it to your life on a daily basis. And then we've got an episode with a guy called Galahad. Clarke, who, remember when we were kids, we used to buy shoes from Clarkes. Well, he is from that Clarkes Empire. I suppose you could say. His parents or his grandparents formed the company Clarkes. And he's been involved in making shoes but he's taken a very different direction to the company, Clarkes because he's all about shoes that are healthy, because typically shoes that most people wear are not healthy for their feet. They're pointed, it's all about fashion, it's all about looking good. And it's not about the health of the foot. And when we treat our feet so badly, that leads to pains in our ankles and our knees and our backs and our hips, which causes just so many problems and surgery and, and pain. And so he creates shoes that are very different than that it's about function rather than just looking good. And so we're going to get into a conversation with him about how did this situation come about in the first place and areas around health with him and we've got another interview with a lady who is a functional medicine practitioner, so we're going to explore much more around health. And the whole idea of all these episodes of all these different guests are all specialists in different areas, a lot of the stuff that we've talked about over the last hour is giving the listeners ways of how you can improve the quality of your life in just small different ways. So it might be, you pick up a couple of tips in the episode on functional medicine that can improve your nutrition and your health, and you might pick up a tip from the guy, the shoe guy, about how you can treat your feet better. And then there might be a tip from Massimo Pigliucci, about how you can be more ethical and show more empathy, and so on. And that's the idea. I'm just hoping that people will pick up little things and it'll be different. Everyone will pick up probably something different in each episode, is something that will maybe help you have a better quality of life.

Morton Patterson 1:09:57
Right. Excellent. Excellent.

Tony Winyard 1:09:59
Okay. Morton, I really appreciate you taking the time to ask me the questions that you've had, which may be some of the same questions that people have looked at the podcast artwork. Is that all around. So by you asking those questions, hopefully a lot of people who are listening to this for the first time will now have their answers, their questions answered. So thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

Morton Patterson 1:10:31
Yeah, you're welcome. I've really enjoyed it. So many words I have have learned today. And of course, your encyclopaedic knowledge. You continue to have probably put it down to rest for a couple years, but it's been it's been amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

Tony Winyard 1:10:50
So that was Episode One of Happy versus Flourishing. Thank you very much to Morton for his assistance and great questions and asking questions that many of the listeners may have been thinking about. If there are other things that maybe you're unsure about or if you have any questions, please feel free to email or you can ask in the group but at the moment the group is still called Exceeding Expectations that may be changing very soon, but you're welcome to go onto Facebook and post any questions on there. Next week. Episode Two is with Barnaby Wynter. Barnaby is a marketing genius. He used to work for the huge advertising company, Saatchi and Saatchi and has launched many very well known brands and has been in marketing for many years but he's not just simply a marketing genius. He also has a fantastic lifestyle which one of the reasons I invited him on. He has a really nice family. Great home environment doesn't work too hard but earns good money and has a comfortable lifestyle. So we're going to hear a lot more from Barnaby about the sort of things he does and his approach to life and so on. So that's next week, Episode Two with Barnaby Wynter. If you do like the show, please do share it with anyone who you feel would really get some benefit would enjoy some of the content in this show. Ask them to subscribe and if you're not subscribed yet. Why not? What are you waiting for? Get on the subscription button. And please do leave a review as well. That is really helpful. It really gets the word out and gets more people hearing about the show, more likely to listen to the show. So until next Tuesday, have a great week.

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