Habits & Health episode 26 with Kristi Jacques. She works to help her clients reduce or eliminate the need for diabetes medication.
Kristi was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at 12 years old. Her doctors only instructions were to “eat healthy” and that “everyone should be eating the diabetic diet”. He did not explain what that meant.
For many years after that Kristi made just about every mistake in the book when managing blood sugar, but thankfully found a way off of that roller coaster ride of highs and lows and feel so much better and now helps her clients do the same.
In this episode we discuss diabetes 1 and 2, diabetes medication, the causes of it, low carb and ketogenic diets, blood glucose monitors and much more.
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The Kristi Jacques interview link:
This video is related to an older episode featuring Lynne Bowman
Tony Winyard 0:00
habits and health Episode 26.
Welcome to the habits and health Podcast, where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. Brought to you by an educator and coach for anyone who wants to create a healthier life. here's your host, Tony Winyard.
Tony Winyard 0:20
Welcome to another edition of habits and health. Today we speak with Kristi Jacques, who is a specialist in helping people to take control of their diabetes. And we're going to go into the differences between diabetes one and two. And how ketogenic diets can help and weight control and many other aspects of diabetes as with Kristi Jacques, in today's episode, if you do know anyone who would who would get some value from this episode, anyone maybe who has diabetes, please do share it with them, and hopefully it can be of benefit to them. Hope you enjoy this week's show. habits and health My guest today, Kristi Jacques How are you, Kristi?
Kristi Jacques 1:07
I'm wonderful. How are you?
Tony Winyard 1:09
I'm doing pretty well. Thank you.
And we find you in South Carolina?
Kristi Jacques 1:13
Yes, where it is nice and gloomy and rainy today.
Tony Winyard 1:18
Well, if you want to talk about rain, I'm in England. That's our normal state of play here. In South Carolina doesn't it get pretty warm there. Sometimes?
Kristi Jacques 1:31
You ask them normally at this time of year, it's 90 degrees and up.
Right. So today it is it is still hot. But with the added benefit of being muggy. And just wonderful. Okay, and Christy what's uh, what is it that you do? I am a diabetes lifestyle coach, and a nutritionist.
Tony Winyard 2:04
Okay. And so do you from the sounds of that you specialise in diabetes?
Kristi Jacques 2:09
Yes. I work with clients who have type two diabetes. That's my main focus. But I personally have been dealing with Type One Diabetes for 38 years, I believe. Okay. So I've been there, done that with every bit of it. And I can help other people do what I do to improve their health.
Tony Winyard 2:41
So because of your experience with diabetes, Is that why you chose to help other people? Yes. And so having what the opposite can do? Well, it's going to say so how, before you kind of got into doing all of this? How did diabetes used to affect you, though,
Kristi Jacques 3:01
I was what I like to call a roller coaster. I would eat lots of the wrong things. My blood sugar would go up really high, then I'd take too much insulin, and I would drop really low. And when that happens, I would have my little bag of what I call my emergency Skittles, some candy to help bring my blood sugar back up. And it never settled down. So it was a constant roller coaster ride and that was exhausting. I had no energy and I couldn't really live life to the fullest.
Tony Winyard 3:46
From what age did that start?
Kristi Jacques 3:49
Well, I was diagnosed as a child, man. If I tell you my age when I was diagnosed, and you're going to start doing the math, but um, no, I started. I started that roller coaster. I'd say in my 20s. Right. And it took a while to kind of figure things out. But I'm so glad that I did.
Tony Winyard 4:16
And in in the process of figuring it out. Were you given a lot of conflicting advice?
Kristi Jacques 4:22
Oh, absolutely. Right. Yeah, I, I'm a trial and error kind of person. I'll do I'll try different ways of eating different lifestyle changes and see what works best for me. And that way, I can advise other people on what might work best for them. But the thing is that we're all so different that you can never really tell what's going to work until you try it.
Tony Winyard 4:59
So what Did you When would you say that you first started to take control of your diabetes? I would say probably 20 years ago. Okay, and then how long did that process take?
Kristi Jacques 5:17
To begin it took a few years, I had to figure out my, what I was eating and how much insulin I needed. And it's been about, I believe, three or four years now that I started using an insulin pump. So now I can really, really tune in on the amount of insulin that I take.
Tony Winyard 5:43
Well, for people listening who may have no idea what it is that you're talking about, with a what, what is that? And how does that help someone?
Kristi Jacques 5:51
Well, the insulin pump lets you really factor in all of your, your lifestyle, your food, your activity. And I can put in the amount of carbohydrates that I'm eating, say I'm eating a big bowl of rice, I can put that number into my pump, controller, and it will tell me how much insulin I need to take care of it. So I can be very precise in my dosage and prevent that roller coaster.
Tony Winyard 6:35
And is that something that many diabetes patients use?
Kristi Jacques 6:40
It's mostly for type one, diabetics. Type two, diabetes is more of a lifestyle. A lot of it can be related to weight. So when you get people more involved in, you know, physical activity, really taking control of what they're consuming, even their thought, their sleep, all of that they can reverse type two.
Tony Winyard 7:18
And so why is it that type two can be reversed, but type one can't be?
Kristi Jacques 7:27
type one, the pancreas no longer works. Mine stopped producing insulin A long time ago. So that's why I have to use the insulin pump or inject it myself. And type two, their pancreas is still working, but maybe not effectively, according to their lifestyle choices. So
Tony Winyard 7:59
and so now, since you know all that you've learned over the last sort of 20 years of, of really tackling this, how different is your life now to how it was before?
Kristi Jacques 8:12
Oh, I'm much happier. And like I said, I'm I'm trying to live life to the fullest. I don't have the ups and downs, I sleep better. I have more energy. And just overall, everything is better.
Tony Winyard 8:37
Instead of with your with your clients, what typically dubeau I wonder? Are your clients mostly sort of type one also, or mixture of type one and type two? Or was the situate
Kristi Jacques 8:50
type two? Mostly? Right? Yeah. Those who want to get off their medications or perhaps just lose some weight and regain their health? Hmm.
Tony Winyard 9:08
What do you think? Do most people who have diabetes ever really not a really comprehensive understanding of exactly what it is? I think people with type one kind of get the idea a little more. Because we don't have a choice. Yeah.
Kristi Jacques 9:33
Type two can be a little little bit more difficult. Because a lot of people develop type two diabetes later in life. And they're are already set in their ways I like to say and trying to get them over some of their their habits They've learned over their lifetime and get them to understand what can happen. I don't think they really, some people really don't get it. When they make lifestyle changes, it's much more powerful and effective than simply taking a pill. And I've had so many people tell me, I can eat whatever I want, I can have that piece of cake. I'll just take a pill that the doctor gave me. So yeah,
Tony Winyard 10:38
some people think that's the easy solution. But it's not the long term solution isn't exactly. So how do you tend to help your patients or your clients?
Kristi Jacques 10:50
Well, I start them off, just talking to them and getting to know them, kind of what their current lifestyle is, some of their favourite foods, and just getting to know their personality. And then we take a step forward, and figure out what their goals are, how committed they are. And then we create a plan. We make small changes over time. You know, I don't like to throw all these different tasks onto a person all at once. Because it can be overwhelming. So I like to do it slow and steady, because you always win the race that way.
Tony Winyard 11:47
Yeah, I guess you've got far less chance of success if you're trying to do too many things at once. Right? Do you work with a certain type of person? Anybody who's willing to listen? and genuinely, how do they find you?
Kristi Jacques 12:09
on online social media, I get referrals. So I have in the past, when I had my physical location, I was getting referrals from different local physicians. But now I'm all virtual. So I can take clients from anywhere.
Tony Winyard 12:36
So I did do you prefer working with people face to face or online? Or do you have a preference?
Kristi Jacques 12:43
I don't really have a preference. I did enjoy meeting people face to face, but I can reach so many more people online. And that's really the goal is to help as many people as possible.
Tony Winyard 13:00
So we usually, how on average, how long would you be working with someone?
Kristi Jacques 13:07
it? Well, to begin with, I'll do a six week programme. And then we'll reevaluate. Sometimes they need a little extra help, or they need maintenance. So it really depends on the individual.
Tony Winyard 13:27
So what kind of results have you been getting for some of your clients?
Kristi Jacques 13:31
I've had clients who, you know, lost 20 pounds. I've had clients that reduce their medication, some that have gotten off of their medication. I've had clients bring me gifts, because they were so happy after going to see their doctor. And that's a very, really, that's a good feeling. They'll come in and give me a giant hug and a gift because they feel so much better.
Tony Winyard 14:04
So what is the difference? Say between, you know, you mentioned some who reduced medication and some have got off of their medication? Is it a case of the people that have got off of their medication being far more really listened to the advice that you've given them really gone to work on their own selves? Or is it more than that?
Kristi Jacques 14:25
That's a huge part of it. their commitment? You know, I have a lot of people who, well, I had a birthday party to go to, you know, it's the holidays. I'm allowed to cheat every once in a while. Yeah, and no, that's fine. But the more committed you are, the bigger the changes you're going to see.
Tony Winyard 14:48
And so is it a case of when people have been really committed that they did they often are able to get off their medication?
Kristi Jacques 14:57
Yes. I've seen it happen. Now, that doesn't mean they're completely cured, of course, they still have to be aware of what's going on what they're doing. But, you know, medications can have so many different side effects. So if you can reduce or eliminate the need for the medications, you're going to feel better overall, anyway.
Tony Winyard 15:27
Yeah. And so the people that have will say, some of the people who offer their medication, is there a time scale that, like an average time scholar that that is taken? I had one client who was extremely committed former military. And it was about five weeks. Wow.
Kristi Jacques 15:56
But that was, that was a very rare occasion. But, you know, slowly reducing the dosage while working with the doctor, you know, I don't tell people to reduce their medication or stop taking it. Yeah, I want them to have a relationship and communicate with their doctor. So we can all work together.
Tony Winyard 16:28
So it's a one someone is off of medication. How different is their life at that point?
Kristi Jacques 16:38
Again, more energy. I have a lot of people who, you know, the, again, the older, older clients, they start because they want to be healthy, to play with their grandkids.
Tony Winyard 16:55
Kristi Jacques 16:57
And when they're losing weight, they're more active, they're feeling better, their blood sugar's normal, that can happen and they don't get tired out, and they have more energy, and are able to really enjoy life with those grandkids. And it's an amazing thing to witness.
Tony Winyard 17:23
And from a nutrition perspective, what are I mean, you know, obviously, we're all different, and we react to foods differently. But are, is it a case of most people we just really need to avoid the the real trigger foods, the added donuts and cakes and so on? Or is it what would you say about that?
Kristi Jacques 17:44
I like to reduce the amount of carbohydrates because a baked potato and a Snickers bar are gonna do the exact same thing to me. That potato will raise my blood sugar, maybe even faster than the Snickers bar. So I like to reduce carbohydrates overall. Now I have some people who are vegans. So they're still eating the beans and the grains and but they reduce their portion size and bring in a variety of different foods. So they're not overwhelming their system with all the starchy carbohydrate laden foods.
Tony Winyard 18:33
And so what acuta genic diet work for someone in diabetes?
Kristi Jacques 18:37
Absolutely. Right. That's, that's kind of the diet that I follow myself. Right. Okay. Again, I tried. I was vegetarian vegan pescatarian. I went extreme vegan by only consuming raw foods for a while, because I wanted to try every different lifestyle that was out there. So I could attest to how it helped me or didn't help me. I don't like to recommend anything to anyone that I haven't personally tried myself.
Tony Winyard 19:16
Yeah, yeah. And for anyone listening who may be is not clear on what a ketogenic diet is, could you could you explain that to
Kristi Jacques 19:24
No. low carbohydrate, moderate protein, and high healthy fats? fats have no real impact on blood sugar. Fats can fuel the brain. Fats can fuel the body and keep you full longer so you don't eat as much. It's pretty amazing.
Tony Winyard 19:53
Yeah, and you don't get you you can go far longer. Not feeling hungry. Exactly. Which is the opposite of high carbs? Right?
Kristi Jacques 20:03
Because when you eat a high carbohydrate meal, you know, it's like, what they say when you eat a Chinese meal, Chinese food, you're going to be hungry Two hours later. It is because of the high carbohydrate content. And they actually put corn starch and sugar in their rice. So that's why you're hungry.
Tony Winyard 20:28
is maybe one of the the biggest problems that most people don't really know the difference between carbs, fats and proteins.
Kristi Jacques 20:36
Yeah, that that plays a part. So it's it's constant education. But education with tools to understand it and try things out. Like I'll give clients different recipes, according to what they already consume what they like. Because there is a ketogenic or low carb, way to prepare just about anything.
Tony Winyard 21:07
Yeah. And our people, quite maybe sceptical about it first, when you suggest that if you suggest it to them, or how do people react?
Kristi Jacques 21:22
I've had I've had sceptics. I hadn't clients that came in and told me that I was a liar. It had been two weeks and they hadn't lost any weight. Right. And then two weeks later, I was their best friend. Because things turned around. They're the meat there are sceptics, they, you know, worry about different things that they hear from their doctor. But once you really start understanding how food works in the body, how you feel, according to certain foods, it's it's pretty, pretty powerful.
Tony Winyard 22:11
Do you find that many of your clients put too much emphasis on the losing weight aspect of all of it?
Kristi Jacques 22:19
Oh, absolutely. They they want to get on that scale every single day. I haven't lost any weight. But you know, according to what time of day you get on the scale, it's gonna be different. So I like to there's something in the ketogenic world, you know, non scale victories. Like maybe your your clothes are fitting a little bit looser. Yeah. Or you have you were able to walk a little farther, have a little more energy that day, or you slept a little better. So those are the non scale victories that can have a huge impact on health.
Tony Winyard 23:09
So is there are you finding that you many of your clients are, say, above like 40? Or do you do generally, I was wondering if you were many people in 20s, or 30s, for example.
Kristi Jacques 23:24
not normally now, it's usually the older, older generation.
Tony Winyard 23:33
Do you ever work with anyone who's got pre diabetes
Kristi Jacques 23:37
I have in the past. But it's been a while. And it pre diabetes and diabetes is really the same information. You just want to make sure that the pancreas has worked working at optimal levels. And is not overwhelmed by having to constantly produce insulin to make up for everything that you ate at that birthday party.
Tony Winyard 24:11
And is a ketogenic diet, sustainable long term. I have friends who have been on the ketogenic lifestyle for 25 years. And they do fantastic. So why is it D? Do you think that some people are there are so many critics who say that it can't be done on a long term basis? Why do you think people say that?
Kristi Jacques 24:40
Because they really don't look into it fully. I know a lot of the the naysayers are worried about cholesterol levels, but cholesterol levels from everything that I've read from different health professionals We're in the ketogenic world, inflammation in the body is more dangerous than the cholesterol. And you get inflammation from high carbohydrate foods and high insulin levels in the body. So you reduce the insulin, reduce the carbohydrates, you're going to reduce the inflammation.
Tony Winyard 25:29
What are the biggest culprits as far as carbs are concerned? Fast food
Kristi Jacques 25:41
you know, going down the grocery aisle with all the chips. And again, rice. Those are the the staple foods like rice and corn and bread, things that are relatively low priced, especially things like white bread, and highly processed white rice. The more processed the food is, the faster it's going to raise blood sugar.
Tony Winyard 26:16
And do you think people have a good own? Well, many of the clients when you started working with them say, do they have a good understanding of what processed food is?
Kristi Jacques 26:26
I think they they have an idea. They, you know, they, it comes in a box or a can. But when you read when I show them, there's something called the glycemic index. And that's basically showing how fast a food will turn into sugar in the body.
Unknown Speaker 26:48
Kristi Jacques 26:50
white rice will is higher on the index than brown rice. white sugar is higher on the index, then, you know, the brown sugar. So it's kind of amazing when they they understand that added fibre that maintained in the unprocessed foods in a slope slows things down.
Tony Winyard 27:19
There's been a number of new sort of technologies and wearables have been introduced in the last few years nowadays, like continuous glucose monitor monitors and many other things. But is that something that you've got much experience with?
Kristi Jacques 27:32
I wear one every day. And I mine has an alert system. So if I'm going too high or too low, it starts screaming at me. So I can correct it before it becomes a problem.
Tony Winyard 27:49
And so could you explain how it works?
Kristi Jacques 27:54
Honestly, that I really don't know. But it's measuring what's called interstitial fluid, might, it's not actually measuring the blood glucose. So if I prick my finger, and test that, yeah, and, you know, compare it to what the continuous monitor shows me, it's gonna be a little bit different, right? Because this measuring two different fluids.
Tony Winyard 28:23
So how is it that the continuous monitor? How would How does it would you do what how does it work on your body, I mean,
Kristi Jacques 28:32
I, it's a little device, there's a tool that you kind of stick it on, there's, there's a little fibre that goes underneath the skin. And I change the location every 10 days. But again, mine gives the the alerts. But I do recommend a continuous monitor, especially for people who don't like pricking their finger. And there are other monitors out there that, you know, they don't have the alert system, but you can, you know, wave your phone over and it'll show your blood sugar. Right. So that's really helpful for for clients who really hate pricking their fingers.
Tony Winyard 29:24
Yeah. And so that data, I guess, is what centre an app on your phone, which keeps track of kind of your how you've been over the last 10 2030 days, whatever. Yes. And is that sort of, I guess that must be making quite a difference to people.
Kristi Jacques 29:40
It makes a huge difference. And you can see the trends like you know, some days my blood sugar's a little higher in the morning, so I can adjust what I'm doing accordingly.
Tony Winyard 29:56
And I guess if someone is that you mentioned it Beginning of the podcast about the people who think our will just a little bit of birthday cake is not going to do me any harm. But if they are to be wearing something along those lines, like a continuous glucose monitor monitor, they can see straight away the results of eating that cake. Absolutely. But would I wonder if someone is of the mind to get a device like that, then they're probably already halfway committed in the first place?
Kristi Jacques 30:30
Not necessarily. Okay, sometimes they like to do it just to prove me wrong.
Tony Winyard 30:35
Kristi Jacques 30:37
Because there's no you can buy one pod at a time. If you wish, yeah. Some people will do it for a trial period.
Tony Winyard 30:51
Right? And on a on a expensive, what kind of pricing are these things?
Kristi Jacques 30:56
Well, the one that I wear is rather expensive, and has to go through my insurance company. There are others that are less expensive, because they don't have the alerts. And you know, believe that, things like Medicare will help cover that. So the doctor just has to write the prescription.
Tony Winyard 31:20
And when you say the alerts, do you mean like an actual, like, sort of buzzing thing on your phone? Or what kind of an alert? Do you mean?
Kristi Jacques 31:28
Oh, yeah, it can it can be either vibration, or it'll scream? Like an alarm clock.
Tony Winyard 31:36
Um, what is? So once you get that alert, what do you then need to do?
Kristi Jacques 31:42
It depends on whether I'm going too low or too high. Right. So if I'm going too low, you know, again, I have my emergency Skittles, or emergency candy stash. And I'll have just a couple to help me get back to a normal level. If I'm going too high, then I might take a little bit of extra insulin using my pump.
Tony Winyard 32:13
And so for that situation where someone has had that bit of bit of birthday cake, because they're convinced is not gonna do any harm, and they are wearing one of these things. I guess they're going to get a hell of an alert. Well,
Kristi Jacques 32:28
they're not getting alerts with with that one type of monitor. Right? But they have to swipe to see what their their numbers are. Right? It's not going to automatically tell him mine leads my blood sugar, like every 15 minutes. And I have a device where I push a button, just to see where I am. Yeah, when when they do eat that piece of cake. And then they see their numbers. They can take stock of how they're feeling. And I'll often have people keep a journal. Right? say, Okay, my blood sugar was this because I this and, you know, I felt awful that day. So they can look over that same thing. Maybe I do need to make some changes.
Tony Winyard 33:33
Are you aware of you know, what we mentioned just now about a continuous glucose monitors. Are there any new technologies on the horizon for diabetics that will help people
Kristi Jacques 33:46
they're always working on different things. There's, there are watches that can monitor glucose? I'm not sure how soon they're coming to market or no, perhaps they're, they're getting ready to launch. There are new insulin pens, their new types of insulin coming out that are cheaper. So they're always working in so many different aspects of diabetes and help. It's kind of mind boggling.
Tony Winyard 34:23
Yeah. Well, and and I guess, because there's the amount of people the number of people who have diabetes seems to be increasing every year. It really does. Yeah. Are you aware of any sort of stats?
Kristi Jacques 34:40
I know that South Carolina where I live, has a very high incidence of type two. Right. And I've even met kids in middle school that have type two diabetes. Wow. And that just should not happen.
Tony Winyard 34:58
No. Yeah, scary, isn't it? Yeah.
We hope you enjoy this episode of the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. If you are looking for deep support to create the health and life you want, we invite you to consider one on one coaching sessions with Tony. coaching sessions give you personalised guidance to fit your unique goals and life situation. Only a limited number of spots are available. But you can easily get started by booking a free introductory call at Tonywinyard.com. Now back to the show.
Tony Winyard 35:29
One of the questions that I mentioned before that I asked most guests is about books that have really moved you in any way. So Ken, can you think of a book that has really resonated with you for whatever reason?
Kristi Jacques 35:42
There is a book called start with why. And, again, that's basically how I work with my clients. What is your Why? You're not going to want to make any changes or do anything to improve your health. Unless that why is powerful. And that's a good place to start.
Tony Winyard 36:11
Auto any clients who are unsure, they won't always always quite clear.
Kristi Jacques 36:18
Oh, I've had many that were unsure.
Tony Winyard 36:21
Right, once a you've had to really kind of help them understand what No, why is
Kristi Jacques 36:26
I there are some that that I've helped get to that point. There are some that never figured it out. And they did not succeed. Yeah. So it's it's really understanding yourself looking inward and figuring out what you want to do and why.
Tony Winyard 36:55
And so you're the the help that you you mentioned before that you do your work online with people. And so it's not just in South Carolina, now it can be anywhere in the world. Is it just coaching that you offer? Would you offer any other help where people as well,
Kristi Jacques 37:11
mainly coaching, you know, I'm a public speaker also, and I've written a book. But the coaching is my main main job.
Tony Winyard 37:24
And the book that you mentioned is that around is around diabetes as well, I presume
Kristi Jacques 37:30
it's about health in general. It's about how to become your own best health advocate.
And what's the name of the book is called Sweet surrender. Okay, and when did you publish that? It's been a few years, it's it was self published. Hmm.
But I've met so many people who will, you know, do whatever the doctor tells them. They don't ask questions. And I feel like you need to be an active participant in your health care. And that's what the book is about.
Tony Winyard 38:06
Yeah, about taking responsibility for your own health.
Kristi Jacques 38:09
Tony Winyard 38:11
Why do you think so many people don't take responsibility for their own health?
Kristi Jacques 38:18
They're supposed to trust their doctor. That's what they've always been told.
Tony Winyard 38:24
Kristi Jacques 38:26
Yeah. And I've been down that road.
Tony Winyard 38:32
But once you realise that you can help yourself by taking responsibility for your own health can be so freeing.
Kristi Jacques 38:48
Oh, absolutely. The whole world opens up. Yeah.
Tony Winyard 38:54
But if people want to find out more about your coaching and your your website and whenever wherever they go to.
Kristi Jacques 39:01
Well, I'm on social media, Coach Kristi, on Facebook and Instagram. Actually, I believe it's coach Kristi J. And my website is KristiJacques.com
Tony Winyard 39:14
Okay, well, we put all of those links in the show notes. And just before we finish, Kristi ido you have a quotation that you like?
Kristi Jacques 39:23
I do. It's actually from a song. And it says, remember who we are. Remember what we are? Remember what we're meant to be?
Tony Winyard 39:39
And so why does that resonate with you?
Kristi Jacques 39:42
Because sometimes we forget, we forget how powerful we are. And that we're supposed to live full, healthy and happy lives. We weren't meant to suffer.
Tony Winyard 40:02
Well, Kristi, thank you for everything you shared over the last 40 minutes, and hopefully someone listening will will really benefit from some of the things that you said. I hope so. Thank you so much. Thank you, Kristi. Next week is Episode 27 with Dr. Don Wood who helps people get freedom from anxiety and panic attacks, he seems to have quite a unique way of helping people. And it's incredibly fast. Many people seem to take a long time, to have many different sessions with therapists or however it is they go about trying to get treatment from anxiety and panic attacks and so on. But Dr. Don Wood has found a very different way. So we're gonna find out a lot more about that and he's going to explain exactly how his process works in next week, Episode 27. Hope you enjoyed this week's show with Kristi Jacques if you know anyone who is maybe suffering from diabetes who could maybe this would be really useful for them. Please do share the episode with them. And hope you have a great week.
Thanks for tuning in to the habits and health podcast where we believe creating healthy habits should be easy. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on your favourite podcast app. Sign up for email updates and learn about coaching and workshop opportunities at TonyWinyard.com. See you next time on that habits and health podcast.
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