Mark Wingfield

The Art of Living Proactively (Harnessing the Power of Your Choices) podcast - episode 227 with Mark Wingfield

On this episode of The Art of Living Proactively (Harnessing the Power of Your Choices), host Tony Winyard invites guest Mark Wingfield to discuss Havening techniques and its revolutionary impact as a neuroscience-based therapy. 

They delve into the development of Havening by Dr. Ron Ruden and how it helps individuals deal with traumatizing memories that might hold them back from past experiences. The episode features various examples of how the technique positively helps people around the world with emotional well-being, chronic pain, and stress. Additionally, other guests speak about how the technique has played a pivotal role in their lives, from becoming a certified practitioner to training children and their parents. The episode also touches on the spread of Havening techniques globally through online training during COVID-19. The episode concludes with a comprehensive guide on how to perform self-Havening and how to attend live events that offer more comprehensive help.

Topics Covered:

I. Introduction to Havening

– Havening is a neuroscience-based technique that helps decode and remove traumatizing memories.
– Havening was developed as a form of therapy.
– Trauma stores memories to keep individuals safe in similar situations in the future, but it can also lead to unhelpful phobias and hold individuals back from past experiences.

II. Havening Around the World

– Havening is spreading to other countries around the world like Scandinavia, Italy, Germany, and parts of Europe due to online training during COVID.
– Havening practitioners are slowly increasing in numbers in certain countries like China, where there are only three practitioners in Hong Kong.
– People are being trained and practicing Havening in countries like Thailand, New Zealand, Mexico, South Africa, Zambia, and the Middle East.

III. Certification and Training

– The speaker trains people for certification in healing, which includes 30 case studies, two video studies, and an exam healing.
– The trainees come from various backgrounds, including therapy and coaching environments, and some join for personal reasons.
– The speaker has helped professionals such as tapping specialists and psychotherapists, despite not being a seasoned psychotherapist themselves.

IV. Understanding Emotional Well-being

– Emotional well-being is important, citing studies that support this claim.
– The speaker suggests individuals try their eight-step process called self-havening, which they developed to help individuals deal with uncomfortable situations.
– Event Havening provides immediate relief for problems and teaches individuals how to perform self-Havening.

V. The Speaker’s Professional Journey

– The speaker has an eclectic mix of experiences that dictate their life.
– They approach a supplier to promote their product, which led to travel across Europe promoting it and eventually led to a career in leadership training development.
– Havening therapy was recommended to the speaker in 2014 and has become the speaker’s main focus, especially during the pandemic.

VI. Havening with Children

– The speaker is a Havening Touch Practitioner who works with children and their parents.
– The speaker gives people a choice to either receive the Havening touch from them or to self-apply it.
– Occasionally, a parent applies the Havening touch, but it’s better if the parent is not in the room because sometimes it’s to do with the parent.

Favourite Quote

“What I can't be today, I can be tomorrow.”

Related episode:

227-Mark Wingfield


[00:00:00] Tony Winyard: Welcome to The Art of Living Proactively (Harnessing the Power of Your Choices) my guest today, episode 2 27. Is Mark Wingfield. And in today’s episode, we talk about Havening. And what is the Havening in technique? We talk about Six Sigma and self-defense and Mark discusses his experience with Six Sigma.

What the is the set of techniques and tools that involves, we talk about the impact of trauma. And that conversation delves into the impact of trauma, how it affects people’s lives. And Mark really emphasises the importance of being proactive about health and wellbeing. There’s some personal stories, Mark tells, and a lot more with us in today’s episode.

Episode 227 with Mark Wingfield.

And remember all episodes are now on YouTube. The actual videos on YouTube. In the past, all of the episodes were audio only. We now have a video option, which is on YouTube and the normal audio option is available on all podcast platforms. Transcripts are available on the website at

Welcome to another edition of The Art of Living Proactively, and my guest today is Mark Wingfield. How are you, Mark?

[00:01:16] Mark Wingfield: I’m very well, thanks, Tony. Good to

[00:01:18] Tony Winyard: be here. good to be here again. And so again, yes indeed. Thank you. Thank you kindly for, cuz we actually did record this a few months ago when the new series was then, at the time it was going to be called, it was Escape from the Vicious Circle. Yeah. That was what the series was gonna be called. And then I decided not to go with that and going with the Art of Living proactively. And Mark has very kindly comeback and we are recording a whole episode again.

So thank you very much, Mark. That’s all right. No problem. so how, because you are in the uk, where are you, Mark?

[00:01:49] Mark Wingfield: I’m in Derbyshire so just, just south of Derby the slap thing in the middle of England. So more or less in the middle of the UK as well. But, yeah, in the middle, in the Midlands.

[00:02:00] Tony Winyard: Okay.

So if I was to ask you who are you, how would you answer that? Who,

[00:02:05] Mark Wingfield: who am I? I’m an eclectic mix of what I’ve, what I’ve done over the years, really. I’m not your average mix of skills and makeup really. I’m reasonably good at most things. I’m terrible at anything practical, but apart from that, I’m reasonably good at most Revolutionising Therapy: An In-depth Discussion on Havening Techniques with Mark Wingfield In the episode, Mark Wingfield discusses the Havening technique, a therapeutic method used to overcome trauma, fear, and stress. He shares personal stories of people he has helped using this technique, including a woman diagnosed with Crohn’s disease and a woman who was sexually assaulted. Wingfield also talks about the impact of trauma on people’s lives and the importance of being proactive about health and wellbeing. Additionally, he mentions his experience with Six Sigma, a set of techniques for process improvement, and his involvement in self-defence training. things.

And so it really did what I’ve done over my life has really been dictated by my interests. so who am I?

I guess we all try and find ourselves when we’re teenagers, don’t we? And. When I was a teenager, I had no idea what I wanted to do. All I knew is that I wanted to experience as much of life as I could. And that was my starting point. So when I was deciding about what I was gonna do further education or whatever, at the age of 18, I thought, I don’t really know what I want to do.

both my brothers have gone to university and they’ve had a great time and they seem to have learned lots out of it. So I think I’ll do that, but I’m not really sure what I wanna do. So I took a business studies degree, partly because I had to, my results weren’t brilliant at a level it must be said.

Cause it didn’t work very hard and I didn’t get where I wanted to go by one point in our academic system. Okay. But I phoned them up and I said, look, This is my, this is what I’ve got. And to, so my surprise, the admissions tutor said, ah, you interviewed really well and, we know you got great results that when you were 16, so we know you’re capable of doing stuff.

you can come on the course. I was like, oh, fantastic, but you have to take the German option. I’m like, that’s all right. I don’t mind that. It was part of the attraction of the course. But they had this not very well utilized German option where if you chose that stream, you had to first of all work in Germany on an industrial placement and you also had to study there for three months as well.

I was like, that’s all right. Yeah, that’s fine. So we agreed that I was coming and anyway, so because of that, that has steered a lot of my later adult life. Okay. So because I lived in Germany, my ger, I did German a level up to the age of 18, I was okay, but I certainly wasn’t fluent. Yeah. And I really got through my, A level, I scraped through my A level because of my German literature.

Right. Not because I was any good at speaking it. or my grammar. But when I arrived in Germany, within three months, I was fluent. Right? Because I was speaking time. And so who am I that has a part in my history? Because when I did various jobs, but at one point, I was made redundant and I had an out placement consultant.

this guy said, okay, what do you wanna do as next job? I’m like, and he said, what are you good at? I said,I’m okay at sales. I like traveling. And he said, what skills you got? I said,I’m pretty much broad range of skills. I wouldn’t say I’m brilliant at anything in particular, but I’m quite good at a lot of things.

And he said,okay, what skills you got? I said,I speak, I used to speak German really well, I was really fluent. and he said, okay, so you like traveling, you’re okay at sales and you speak German. Why aren’t you in export sales? Then ooh, ding. So I just applied for export sales jobs and so that dictated where I went.

That got me to the Midlands, for example, where I live now, because I went to work for JCB and I worked in export sales for jcb. And, so the next few jobs that I was in was export sales, or it used my languages. And then when I was made redundant later from Caterpillar,some years later, I thought,what do I do?

And I actually approached a supplier and said, look, product we’ve developed together is gonna die unless you fund me to promote it for you. And I ended up coming. Long story short, I ended up promoting this product that was a Caterpillar product developed at another company, and I traveled across Europe promoting it.

and I did that for fir the first 14 months of my business. So that got my business up and running. but as I was doing that, I knew that wasn’t gonna last forever. So I thought, what else do I do? What am I good at? What do I enjoy? The martial arts that I had as a hobby came to the fore and I thought, can I do something that uses my martial arts?

And so I dabbled with some work there. And then I was at an exhibition counting for business. I went around a few stand stands and I had little badge, which said, had the name of my company. Which is MW Sigma Limited and it had little flags on it. Had a German flag, British flag and French flag.

Cause I speak a bit of French, but very good German. And this guy saw me on the stage. He said, duh. Huh, do you understand Six Sigma? I said, yeah, I’m a certified Six Sigma blackbelt. Oh, okay, and you speak German? Said, yeah, very good. Ah, okay, could you go to Munich in September and deliver leadership training for us?

I said, as long as I know what I’m talking about. And I’d been through various leadership programs, myself and I looked at the syllabus and I thought, I’ve done most of that. I understand most of it. I’ve just gotta be able to relay it. And I said, there’s a few things here I’m not familiar with this.

Said, ah, don’t worry. He said, I’m gonna lead the first training England in English in England. You be my assistant. And then we’ll go to Germany, you lead it, and I’ll be your assistant. Oh, okay. So that set me on the train of doing various bits of associate training. So it got me into leadership, development and training.

It got me into, I did a bit of Six Sigma here and there for other people. And I did some, conflict management work, which enhanced the self-defense stuff that I’d been doing. And so I gradually built up more and more experience in that area. and that was working quite nicely. And then somebody who knows me quite well said, why don’t you do Havening I’m like, what? I’ve been toing. What’s Havening They said, no, it’s not a place, it’s. A therapy, I’m not a therapist. Why? Why would I do that? So I said, the self-defense stuff that you do, which is quite in your face, literally in your face, it was very experiential, it was very challenging work.

and I just, in case we talked about it, I have just to wear quickly demonstrating.

So that would be a very mild form of the experiential training that we did. And that is actually quite difficult for somebody who has been traumatized and just say, we pick on a subject area where they’ve been traumatized previously, they’re not gonna take up, they’re just not gonna do it. So I found that occasionally we’d have people in a group exercise, they wouldn’t be able to take part.

So Havening was put to me as well that could be a one-to-one treat. So I’m like, oh, okay, I’ll have a look into it. So I had a chat with the guy who was running the training and he said, be very skeptical. He said, it sounds too good to be true, but if you think it’ll work for you, come along to the training.

And I spoke to somebody else who’d been his demo volunteer, and they said, oh, that’s brilliant. Right? And I trusted her. So I thought, okay. I went along for the training, blew me away. And that was 2014. So who are, how, who am I coming back to? Your original question? Long way to answer it, but it’s it’s all these little bits and pieces that have developed my experience and expertise and Havening has really come to the fore, particularly in the last few years.

because the pandemic, so I was quite happy doing a lot of conflict management, assertiveness, anti-bullying stuff. I was speaking in schools, doing all sorts of different work there, but that all stopped with the lockdown and covid. I had to rebuild the business. the business basically died overnight.

So I thought, what can I do? And I can do Havening online. So I thought, okay, let’s focus on that. And I became a trainer and I train therapists. I train doctors, I train, all sorts of people in NLP coaches, at a, an inquiry from somebody, massage therapist last night. So people who are interested in helping people deal with the past and deal with challenges that they have, often from trauma doesn’t have to be though.

cuz it’s fantastic as a coaching tool. And so that, that’s what I do now. so who am I? This all professional stuff. Of course, I’m an outside of, you want to know outside of work and tell you a few bits and pieces. But from a professional point of view, that’s who I am. Now I’ve developed into a.

a consultant to some extent, but also a specialist in helping people deal with nasty challenges. And that’s kind of me.

[00:11:59] Tony Winyard: So for someone who’s listening to this and is still, maybe you gave a brief description of what Havening Havening is, so it’s for someone who’s having problems

so I’m just gonna try and see if I try and describe it for someone who’s having anxiety, they’re not maybe having problems coping with some things going on in their life, this can be a way that can get them through that. Would that be a good description of it?

[00:12:24] Mark Wingfield: That’s just part of it. Yeah. it’s a good description.

Havening was developed as a form of therapy, but it is so much more than that because,if I gave you a long list of different things that Havening can help you with, It’s all around emotion. Okay. So the amygdala, the bits of the brain that control our emotions People will be familiar with fight or flights.

It’s a bit that runs that if you like. emotion is what we use to make our decisions. People think it’s all about logic, it’s not. Emotion is behind making our decisions, to a large extent. And also, if you think about chronic pain now, I never thought I would be helping people with pain.

But I am, if it’s linked to trauma, right. So it’s trauma induced and some of the artifacts of that traumatic experience is that, pain is stored in the body. Right. so I’ve helped people with fibromyalgia, for example, on quite few different occasions. I helped a lady not too long ago, probably about, almost a year ago now, actually, who had a knot in her stomach and just intuitively I knew it was from trauma because of some of the things she said to me.

and she was somebody I knew as a sort of an associate and I said to her, what, tell me to get lost if you like, but I think what you are, what’s been represented in your body at the moment is trauma-based. And she said, it’s funny you should say that, because she list off five things that happened to her recently.

And so I said, right, I’d like to help you with that. She wanted to pay me. And I said, actually, I’m just really intrigued if I can help you with that. That, discomfort in your stomach. Yeah. Just as a case study. I said, oh, I’m not comfortable with that. I want to pay you. And I said, right, okay. Here’s the deal.

If it works, cause I didn’t know work or not, then you come on my training calls and you learn about Havening She said, oh, okay. I was thinking about doing that anyway, so that’s fine. she came on the training course since September, and she’s recently certified as a practitioner herself. Cool. So it worked and it took, about an hour and 40 minutes.

[00:14:31] Tony Winyard: Okay. Until I gave two hours and about hour and 40 minutes she suddenly went, Ooh, ooh. I just felt a shift. And it actually happened as we were talking. So it, this sounds wacky, doesn’t it? It sounds loopy lube, but it’s true. and did she have something like f fibromyalgia or Chronic Fatigue syndrome, something like that?

[00:14:52] Mark Wingfield: She was diagnosed as having, esent Crohn’s disease. Okay. That’s what it was diagnosed as. Right. she did have some physical problems, but actually what she was exhibiting at the time were largely taken away by what we were doing, the paper. the proof of putting here. Is that not only did she come on the training course, her husband came on the training course the following month because he’d seen the change in.

Right. So that was lovely.

[00:15:22] Tony Winyard: And I’m guessing that she’d been trying, like going to her GP and various other things and hadn’t had any joy with any of that.

[00:15:31] Mark Wingfield: Yeah. exactly that. And she actually runs a wellbeing company herself. Right. And she’s tried. she’d, she’d listed this, how I found out about it.

She’d listed on her website, she’d kept her diary and I just wanted, remember how she phrased it? It was, treating life as an experiment. That’s the way she put it. And she was trying, cuz she, she’s very knowledgeable about a lot of wellbeing and nutrition and all sorts stuff. And she had this problem.

She’s I’m gonna try things out every month and see if it makes any difference. And she cataloged it. Some things helped a little bit, some things didn’t. So she was keeping this diary and I was looking at this thinking, this is trauma. this is why it’s not going away. and that’s what Havening does.

it takes away the encoding that happens at the time of traumatization. It basically helps you decode what’s gone on and remove it. So it’s no longer there, it’s just gone. that’s what Havening is all about. It’s a, it’s based on neuroscience and it’s not woowoo, it’s based on the work of, an eminent neuroscientist called Dr.

Ron Rudin and he wrote a book in 2010 when the past is always present, fantastic title because that’s what trauma is all about. It’s there to say, oh, we’ve had a nasty experience. If anything like this ever happens again, we just store that memory and what you did to get away from it just to keep you safe next time.

Right. Which is why phobias can be incredibly unhelpful. yeah. if something happens to you as a child, that was really horrible, but actually later on in life it has, it’s of no consequence. Yet you’re still held back by something that occurred to you 50 years ago, something stupid.

[00:17:11] Tony Winyard: and it’s, it seems to me it’s those kinds of things that you are talking about. those traumas, those phobias there. apart from anything, GPs don’t have sufficient time to explore into what might be the cause. They’re the things. it’s just more difficult for a GP to try to help the average patient with something like that.

[00:17:29] Mark Wingfield: it is. and Ron that was talking to earlier about, Ron Rudin was a GP for 40 years. He just decided as a gp, so he. Because he was a neuroscience scientist. He always had another thing thought at the back of his mind when he was di diagnosing people. Is this a physical injury or is it up here?

Right. And so that’s shorthanded version of how that evolved. It’s really interesting since we last spoke, something very interesting has happened. I have a colleague in New Zealand, and he’s a qualified doctor. He’s an anesthetist, very experienced anesthetist. he retired from his practice a couple of years ago just to do Havening and he is running some really interesting stuff in New Zealand at the moment where he’s trying to get, funding for Havening in New Zealand health Service.

And there’s a remarkable interview that was given recently with, a young New Zealand doctor. She’s recently qualified. And she stopped her practice because she said, I came to medicine to help people. Right. To heal people. Yeah. And within the constraints of how I have to work, I can’t do much of that.

Right. I’m just prescribing pills. I’m paraphrasing. It’s not exactly the word she used, but something. And so she again, is doing Havening more or less full-time now. That’s quite remarkable. Yeah. and it goes back to these nine minutes or whatever, gps have to see you, they are gps, they are general practitioners.

Very intelligent, very knowledgeable about lots of things, but probably not in too much detail. yeah. Yeah. Unless they have a specialty. and then they send you to a consultant, Based on that. So yeah. you can’t complain really, but they don’t know everything that’s out there.

Yeah. But I, when I first trained in 2014, there was a doctor on the first course I went to, GP and she was very curious about Havening, had heard about it. And then the second time I trained, cause I went back cause I was, I loved it. there was a different doctor there. So again, open-minded gp. A lot of people feel threatened by Havening because it is so effective and so fast.

but there shouldn’t be because you can compliment any other experience and expertise that you got. So all sorts of modalities from NLP to, C B T, which you may have heard of, EMDR movement, desensitization and reprocessing, all sorts of other psychotherapy approaches. eft. So tapping people will be familiar perhaps.

[00:20:03] Tony Winyard: So when you say some people feel threatened, are you talking about other practitioners of other sort of methods or

[00:20:09] Mark Wingfield: Yeah. Be, people that use things that take years, right. Or. make progress. they all have their place, they, they’re all quite useful in some shape or form. Right. But actually, I know somebody who’s recently qualified in C B T and they’re very good at what they do and they do get great results.

But I, I also know that this person is trained in Havening They’re not allowed to use Havening Not

[00:20:36] Tony Winyard: allowed to. Okay. Not allowed to because

[00:20:38] Mark Wingfield: it’s not approved. Okay. I know that they could get results quicker using Havening. It’s not to say that what they’re doing is wrong. It’s not wrong. It’s just a different way of doing it.

and combined with Havening it’s wonderful. So

[00:20:53] Tony Winyard: are they, so he’s not allowed to combine it

[00:20:56] Mark Wingfield: then? It sounds like they’re not allowed to. No.

[00:21:00] Tony Winyard: Okay. Yeah. and so this podcast now, so you know, this series four. It’s called the Art of Living proactively. Now, on the face of it, what you’ve described about trauma and phobias and so on is the kind of almost opposite of being proactive around health, but I’m guessing I’m wrong there.

So how, what, how would you answer that?

[00:21:26] Mark Wingfield: We all have challenges. Every single day we will get frustrated or annoyed or happy or, but let’s just look at the slightly negative side of things, things that we don’t want to go a certain way. it’s just how life is. you can’t, what’s the expression?

You can’t appreciate the sunshine until you’ve seen the rainbow. So you have this, light and dark, but why not be able to get back into the light really quickly? And that’s what Havening can do, just to deregulate, if you get really upset from something somebody said to you.

Something as simple as that. Or you are shocked by something you’ve seen on the tv. some people can get third well secondhand trauma, seeing stuff on tv. It’s not happening to them, but they’re seeing it happening on the tv. or they’ve been told about it in the pub and that would be thirdhand trauma, oh, did you see that report last night?

Oh, I see that dismembered limb and, not great. why not be able to take control live life positively and proactively and use something like Havening to help you do it? And let’s look. There’s lots of great techniques. Havening is the one that I go to all the time. There are others and I use others.

but Havening my first port of COR all the time.

[00:22:39] Tony Winyard: And so if you were, how would you define cuz? Words can be mean, different things to different people. Even there may be a definition in the Oxford Dictionary or whatever, but we can all have our own interpretation of things. how would you define being proactive

[00:22:54] Mark Wingfield: around health?

I think it’s taking responsibility, be your own health. Right. we’ve had conversations about fitness, for example. And you can choose to do something different with your time. you can choose to sit in front of the tv, have a bag of crisps and a pint of beer, or you can choose to do something else, which is a bit more, active.

whether you talk about heartrate. Or whether you’re talking about, up here, reading a book or. not all TV’s bad but are from it, but it’s,you can make choices. it’s, do you eat a carrot or a cream cake? sometimes it’s hard to make the right decision cuz both of those are quite normal.

but it’s about taking control and Havening it allows you to take control because you’re not controlled by something else and

[00:23:48] Tony Winyard: you likened it there to physical or to, to fitness. And I remember you saying something before about emotional health is as important as physical health.

Yeah. Can you elaborate on that?

[00:24:02] Mark Wingfield: I, I don’t claim to know all the studies around this, but I’m, I know there are studies that proven that looking after your emotional, this is very important. I, I can only speak for myself when I, and people that I’ve helped where if you look after your emotional wellbeing, then you can cope with, you can cope with anything that comes your way. even the most horrible things. I’ll give you an example. there’s a chap, he approached me the other day.

He’s just lost his wife to a really horrible disease. he’s got a brain condition, and he could choose to just roll up and just, not participate. And, but he reached out and he said, look, I’m stricken with grief because not only have I lost the love of my life, But it’s traumatic the way she passed away.

And I was caring for her at home by her. And, he can’t sleep and he doesn’t have any appetite and,he’s just, and it’s triggered things that happen in his past. so he’s made a decision to do something about it, right? And he’s offered to be a volunteer in one of my demonstration, events.

And I’ve said that the one I’m doing tomorrow, for example, which is an opening, it’s not appropriate. It wouldn’t be fair on him or be a great demo for me, to be honest, right. because it’s just doesn’t fit with what I was trying to do. but I have said to him, he, here’s a self Havening guide. I’ve actually sent him self Havening guide a couple days ago and he’s come back saying, oh, that’s been really helpful.

Thank you. and that’s just a piece of paper going through an eight step process that I developed to help people in the moment deal with very uncomfortable situations. No. So it’s not gonna take away the root pores, which is what I can do with hay. But I’ve said to him at one of my training events, and I’ve got a training event happening in recording this in, we’re still just in May.

Almost June. Yeah. Yeah. But in June, 2023 when, doing a course, I said to him, would you like to be my demonstration volunteer, where I could spend longer with you? And I can use lots of different types of Havening to demonstrate to my trainees how you apply different types of Havening so they’ll have trained with me, learnt all techniques.

And then this is this is how you put it together. Right. And, so he’s thinking about whether he wants to do it and that would be appropriate. So I can definitely help him. But, he’s made the decision, I’m gonna do something about it. I’m not gonna sit here and wallow in my own self-pity.

[00:26:25] Tony Winyard: Of which he’s got, plenty to think about. that’s reminding me of, I’ve got a feeling, we may have spoken about this before, a book, Victor Frankel, man’s Man, search For Meaning. Yeah. it’s on a very different degree, but it reminds me of his approach to his situation inside a concentration camp.

[00:26:43] Mark Wingfield: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I hadn’t heard of that book until about, two years ago, three years ago maybe. And, I thought, oh, collapse. I read it. I can’t remember two about it, but I do remember the principle thing. basically life happens, it’s what you do with it. Eventually after that, that, that makes the difference.

And we can all make a difference. We can all choose, yeah. To at least try to be happier or try to do something about what’s happened to us, or we can just wallow in it and let it happen to us.

[00:27:09] Tony Winyard: and the full title of this, so the tagline to this podcast says it’s the art of living proactively, but the tagline is,harnessing the power of your choices.

Ah, okay.

[00:27:18] Mark Wingfield: Yeah. There you go. That fits perfectly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. you choose to live with it or you do something better.

[00:27:25] Tony Winyard: Yeah. and so I’m wondering, though, you talked about how you are helping people with trauma and phobia and so on. So say someone has had traumatic episode or episodes in their life, you help them deal with that.

And is it a case of their, cuz it, as you say, that it doesn’t mean that the trauma doesn’t exist for them anymore. It’s still gonna be in their memory somewhere. And it could be a situation in the future where for some reason that memory starts to come back and starts to get a bit trauma traumatic for them.

You’ve given them some kind of a coping technique, they can easily dispel it. is it something like that?

[00:28:00] Mark Wingfield: Okay. There’s a couple of things there. generally you won’t forget what happened to you. So something awful happened. You won’t forget that happened. It’s our emotional link to that, that changes, right?

And also other ways we perceive it. So all, when we think about cognitively, how we think about it, right? oh, that happened because of the relationship that I was going through at the time, or my parents were trying to protect me, or it would’ve been an accident if we hadn’t had done this.

so there’s, they understand the reason for it, but cognitive reasoning, right? The autonomic relationship to it. having to breathe really fast or getting, embarrassed, flushed or, shaky or some other symptom on your body,the chronic pain we talked about, or, shaking or something like that.

That will, can potentially disappear as well and probably will if we work our way through the issue. But the emotion will go, so we always talk about a subjective unit, stress score. So 10 is really horrendous, zero means nothing to you. And ideally I’d like to get people to zero. So they look at it and go, yeah, that happened to me, but something happened in the past.

And that’s exactly what, this always comes to mind when I talk about this sort of thing. There’s a lady I worked with probably, four years ago, five years ago maybe. she was sexually assaulted, 38 years previous to me meeting her. And I was organizing a self-defense course, that I was talking about earlier.

And she arrived early and I said, oh, Katie, what made you come onto the self-defense course? And she burst out crying. Oh, and I apologize. I said, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to upset you. And she started to tell me in graphic detail, without prompting, sexual assault happened all that time ago. I said, look, you don’t have to tell me anything, we can’t do anything now. Cause you know, people are coming, gonna come through the door any moment now we’re doing the course, but if you have time next week, after the course, if you’ll allow me to, I think I can help you. And this is with Nathan?

So she came back the following week, sat it down and it took 15 minutes to get rid of the issue cuz there’s a one off, which is fantastic. And her comment, her actual words at the end were, it just happened. So from being crying, really upset and for understandable reasons, she was frightened going out of the night in the dark.

Right. You didn’t like him with people,

[00:30:37] Tony Winyard: and it sounds like she had been for the last 38 years.

[00:30:39] Mark Wingfield: Yes. Right. and so she, she was now in the situation where it’d gone, it had no emotional resonance for her whatsoever. And I asked her to think back to the time that it happened and she thought back, oh, it just happened, right?

And I’m like, yes. Right. And she, and she then reached for a handbag, To get me, get some money to pay me. And this is one of the loveliest things. I said, you don’t need to do this. She said, what do you mean? I said, you’ve paid for the self-defense course. this was my, and it was my absolute pleasure to help with that.

It was just, you just have to be right place, right time. And, I said, you’ve already paid for the course. Yeah. That’s more than enough payment. Just seeing the smile on your face, that’s fantastic. and that’s what people feel like afterwards, just, it’s just

[00:31:32] Tony Winyard: whereas I said, you give them coping techniques, should it come again?

It doesn’t come again because they’re thinking about it

[00:31:38] Mark Wingfield: differently. No, it’s not to say that it can’t be re-traumatized. You can’t be traumatized by something else. Right. You’re not gonna get re-traumatized in the exact same way. but there could be something similar. Who knows? I’ll give you another similar type of thing.

There’s a lady who, I helped, who worked as, she worked in a buffet car,with a trolley on the train, walking up and down the train, selling food and drink. And she was sexually assaulted, unfortunately, on the train by passengers and cut story shorts. she went back to work, which she wasn’t gonna do after the Havening that we did.

it’s not to say that she couldn’t be attacked again and have some kind of a horrible, traumatization again, that’s possible. But it would be a fresh thing that happened and we would approach it in a different way, looking at all the circumstances around that situation. Right. What it would, what we did was in between, we did certainness and self-defense training to make sure it never got to that point again.

Right. that’s trying to make sure she wasn’t exposed to that

[00:32:44] Tony Winyard: all because she, you mentioned at the beginning, when you were talking about, like, when I asked you who are you? And you mentioned SIG, Zig Sigma. It sounded like I was thinking as, Zig. Zig Zigler. Yeah. Zig Zigler.

yeah. Six Sigma is, it’s a methodology, used in quality. And when I worked at Caterpillar, I was a product manager originally. Then I was asked if I’d like to be a commercial black belt. I’m like, Lia, nearly black belt in karate. What you on belt? And they said, oh no, this is Six Sigma.

[00:33:14] Mark Wingfield: And it’s a methodology of running a project and it’s all through, excellence in process. So it’s a quality thing. so that’s Sig and Six Sigma is 3.4 defects per million opportunities. That’s your official definition. yeah, so I can be very detail focused, but I’m also quite creative.

And, so they wanted a commercial, somebody with a commercial background to work on commercial projects. Normally they would have engineers, manufacturing specialists working on these projects. And, previously they’d be shop floor manufacturing, engineering issues. And I had a couple of those, but I also had some marketing issues.

like our friends in America designed this fantastic new machine, but neglected to look at certain markets in Europe where sales were gonna nose dive because they hadn’t done that. So we came up with some creative solutions to not losing all this Market share that had been built up over decades.

[00:34:12] Tony: So

[00:34:13] Tony Winyard: I’ve misunderstood then I thought you were referring to si this si Six Sigma as something to do with martial arts or self-defense?

[00:34:21] Mark Wingfield: the, it’s not unnatural that you’re confused by it because they use terminology, belt terminology. So a black belt is the project manager. Ah, okay. and I had a master black belt who trained me, for example.

And, and when you’re on a group team in Six Sigma, you often have, green belts. Green belts are, they’re partially qualified in Six Sigma. you have subject matter experts, you have white belts, you have yellow belts. it’s basically to say it’s a very, strict process that you follow and you do not pass, go.

You do not pass a gateway until you have done certain things. Right. so if. It could, it can be very interesting. Can be dollars dishwater as well. So it just depends on the project you do.

[00:35:09] Tony Winyard: Right. So how does using Havening Techniques, and clearly you’ve mentioned how you’ve, you in, you get other people to become instructors as well, so you’re expanding the amount of people who practitioners I know.

And so I can see how it’s gonna help them and maybe give them a new business and so on. And does it, is it gonna help them in, I guess it’s gonna help their sort of personal growth

[00:35:32] Mark Wingfield: as well? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I use it not every day, if I’m honest, but I use it most days. Right. just to keep myself down regulated, if I have an argument with somebody, which, these things happen, just to bring myself down, I had a, I won’t go into the detail, but I had a very nasty commercial experience last year, in October.

And a, I was very angry, but secondly, I was just, I couldn’t believe it happened. I respected this person initially thought they were quite capable and I was looking to work with them, but they turned out to be very nasty person. And, and I found it quite upsetting.

so I did a lot of Havening on myself, just to get rid of the emotion. Right. And, yeah,I was shouting a lot of exes in the shower whilst I was doing a bit of self Havening. yeah, I won’t share those here, but,

[00:36:24] Tony Winyard: and so is it, are most of the people who come to learn this in order to be able to teach it to other people, are, I’m wondering are they doing it in combination of other things they do?

Is it just something someone just want to have? As a skill or do many of them just use it as their main job

[00:36:45] Mark Wingfield: as such? just thinking about the people that I trained, probably about half are they have a background in either therapy or some kind of Yeah. Therapy primarily. And the other half are, almost a half are in some kind of coaching environment.

there’s been a couple that have joined me for personal reasons. There’s one guy in based in Spain who wanted to help members of his family. but most are coming along to do certification, as in they, they do 30 K studies, they do two video studies. They do an exam in Havening. and I support them for, at least a year doing that and if they need it for it yet.

But this. and so they come from really wide background. I’ve had some very experienced academics as well as,nurse in Denmark. all sorts of tapping specialists, psychotherapists. In fact, I have some psychotherapists that, recommend me for certain aspects, and one of them said, you just make my work a lot faster.

so it, it can fit with all sorts of things. and I don’t have, as it, as I’ve outlined earlier, I’m not died in the wall. experienced psychotherapist. I don’t claim to be, and I use Havening, virtually standalone, as a tool. and that’s why it can be threatening to some people because they walk.

How can somebody just off the street do? I’m not off the street. I do have quite a bit of experience in trauma. it’s what, it’s wise to get involved and do your time learning about trauma in particularly if you use in trauma environment. But actually I’ve met some very talented people who are brilliant at helping people with trauma who don’t have that experience.

[00:38:38] Tony Winyard: It’s interesting you said that, cuz I was just thinking about if someone was interested in learning more about this to have as a, maybe as a tool in their toolbox, but they hadn’t encountered any trauma in their lives or philipps or anything, would it still, would it, would they still be able to appreciate, I dunno, what, do you ever get any people like that?

[00:39:01] Mark Wingfield: Yeah. we talk a lot about compassion. if you’re a compassionate person and you want to help people, Then Havening you is wonderful for that. A lot of people talk about empathy. you gotta have em. Empathy for people and empathy can be really useful. But actually when you’re a therapist, you get too empathetic and you feel what other people are feeling that’s not always good for you.

Right? And you can feel how they’ve, the suffering they’re going through. If you can take yourself to one side, not to be, unconcerned right, or cold, but to be a bit more dispassionate and compassionate, right? That’s a far better place, I think. And so you could argue, I don’t argue necessarily, but you could argue that somebody who’s experienced trauma might not always be the best person to help somebody.

Right? Where you know somebody who understands what, how trauma is encoded. How you support people professionally in a safe environment and understand the neuroscience, how to decode that, encoding and enable them to be the best that they can be in whatever they want to do. Maybe they’re a better person, right?

To help somebody. And equally, there are people who’ve experienced trauma and it drives them into wanting to help other people and that there’s plenty of fantastic people out there doing that sort of, yeah. and you don’t have to look, therapists into Google or something and you’ll find thousands of ’em around the world who’ve had experienced trauma and they are brilliant.

So I think both were actually,

[00:40:39] Tony Winyard: so Is Havening in pretty global now or is it more certain countries?

[00:40:45] Mark Wingfield: It’s certainly more certain countries. when I looked into this few years ago, there were, at the time there are about 400. Practitioners in the uk and there were about 400 in the us and apart from that, there was other English speaking areas around the world.

So Australia, New Zealand, Canada, they were sort, they were the cornerstones of Havening. But there are certain pockets around Scandinavia, around Italy, and they evolved over time, but now it’s much, much more widespread, largely because the Covid, right? Because it all used to be face-to-face training.

So you’d have somebody travel somewhere, do some training, and then leave behind them, high load of practitioners, and then it spread from there, right? But now what you’ve got is people, you, I’ve trained people in Israel, I’ve mentioned Denmark, lots of people in the States, Canada. What’s further afield?

Germany, other parts of Europe, but I have people on my intros, somebody’s just inquired from Thailand. I had a communication for something New Zealand this morning. I’ve had people in, somebody coming tomorrow from Mexico. various different countries in South America. I’ve had a few people from, South Africa, from Zambia, middle East, and somebody from a poman recently.

so to answer your question, it’s slowly getting there, but the numbers are quite small in certain countries. So I think still in China, there’s only about three practitioners and they’re all in Hong Kong, I think. So that’s hugely just, doesn’t show what opportunity there is by any means,or coverage There is.

yeah, so it took a long time to answer that question, sorry.

[00:42:44] Tony Winyard: So if people are listening to listener thinking, yeah, that sounds like something that would be useful for me. How would they go about it if they just go to your website

[00:42:53] Mark Wingfield: and what would they do? I’d recommend coming onto, an intro.

Okay. And I, I’m doing fun enough tomorrow night, and you can get to those on Eventbrite. I run one at least every month, during the year. And, it’s very easy to put into Google now it’s into a search engine or even web browser, whatever you call it. https // bit bt . L y and then /.

And it’ll get you.

[00:43:25] Tony Winyard: And don’t worry if you didn’t catch that’ll be in the show notes if you didn’t catch that url.

[00:43:30] Mark Wingfield: Thank you. so I run those regularly. that’s probably the best thing. and what in that is within an hour you’ll get a bit of the background, about Havening, where it came from.

Little bit about the neuroscience. You’ll see a live demonstration of somebody who comes along with one issue. So we only present what’s called event Havening in these sessions, and they will get immediate relief from whatever they’re suffering from. and then at the end, everybody has a go to self Havening and they learn how to self Havening So I, I describe the paving touch, which is gonna be as I’m doing here on the video. So the shoulders down the arms to the elbows back up again. Very nice soothing feeling or around the face. Arms of the hands that generates something called a delta wave. I explain why that’s critical to Havening, in the, in that house session and actually what happens.

So we stop the signal being sent further that would say, oh, you need to feel pain now. Or, oh, you need to feel uncomfortable. You need to run away. You need to do this. We stop that signal being sent any further so that you’re back to where you were before the traumatization. And yeah, so that, that’s the best way of accessing.

Or if somebody doesn’t wanna listen through to an hour of me yacking away, then I do offer to people, 15 minute tryout. Okay. The reason I do that is cause I know I can get an effect within 15 minutes. Right. and, but I can’t offer that all the time cuz I, that’s free of charge. Right. And can’t do that forever.

I can’t do an hour one of those because I won’t make enough money to live and if I get too many people wanting to do it. So that’s why the, some people prefer a group thing, as well, even though you don’t have to talk about anything within Havening if you don’t wish to.

[00:45:22] Tony Winyard: And I’m wondering if, when you were describing that, if, do you get situations where, say for example, someone has been traumatized so badly, they really don’t feel, they don’t want to talk about it to people they don’t know.

Yeah. and so maybe a family member learns it so the family member can help that person because they obviously trust a family member. Do, has there been situations like that, for example?

[00:45:47] Mark Wingfield: I’ve never had that so far. what I have had is, I’ve had some children that have come to me with their parents, and I always give people the choice.

if it’s in person, I give people a choice. Say, if you would like me to and you give me permission, then I’ll apply the Havening. Touch on your arms and shoulders. Face or hands. if you don’t feel comfortable with that or you just wish to do it yourself, then you can selfly and I teach them how to do it.

Occasionally, the parent will apply it. No. it depends on the ratio. Some, quite often I wanna keep the parent out the room, to be honest. Because sometimes it’s to do the parent, right? And if they want to talk to me about the situation, then they’ll feel inhibited from do doing so potentially because they’re in the room, right?

so I’ve had that situation, where the parent applies Havening touch, but I’ve never had somebody saying, oh no, I don’t wanna talk to somebody, so I’m gonna get a member of the family trained up to do it with me if my experience is anything to go by. I’ve been trying to apply Havening to one of my daughters for about a year and, she’s finally actually applying some self Havening in herself and she’s saying, oh, it’s making a difference, dad.

But it’s taken a long time for her to actually access that, even though I’ve been hopefully gently dropping it into conversation every now and then. yeah, some people having. I a poster with the family isn’t always the right thing actually. Okay. because there’s a connect, maybe they’re part of the shared history, maybe they’re part of the problem.


[00:47:27] Tony Winyard: we, we are flying through time here, so I’m gonna test your memory now, Mark. And Okay. You don’t necessarily need to use your memory here because you could just change your mind. So last time we spoke, I asked you was there a book that really moved you for any reason? So do you wanna try and remember what that was or are you just gonna gimme a, something else that, a book, it doesn’t have to be related to what you do, it could be just a book that has moved you for some reason in your

[00:47:51] Mark Wingfield: life.

the Gift of fear. I’m just trying to remember the author’s name. can’t think of the author’s name for the moment. we,

[00:47:59] Tony Winyard: I’ll put that in the show notes. But what, why was

[00:48:01] Mark Wingfield: that impactful? I heard about it when I was doing my a, a particular type of martial arts, piece of work and, somebody on the course they said, oh, have you come across this book?

And I said, oh, no, dunno what that is. I said, oh, I really recommend reading. And it was all about sharpening your awareness and the actually being frightened is a really helpful thing, if you utilize it effectively. and actually that, that feeds nicely into Havening because that’s exactly what this encoding is all about.

It’s supposed to be helpful, your amygdala being absolutely logical. That was really horrible 20 years ago or two minutes ago, whatever it was, you don’t wanna do this, go off and do that. Right. and it’s fear that drives that, it’s fear of some kind of loss, whether it’s loss of your life or liberty or friendship or something else.

But it’s all about fear of losing something.

[00:49:10] Tony Winyard: you mentioned before about the monthly webinar you do. Is there people want to contact, connect with you on, say, social media or LinkedIn? Are they able to do that?

[00:49:19] Mark Wingfield: They are indeed. And, you look Mark Wingfield up on LinkedIn, you’ll find me easily enough.

I’ve got a, an Instagram channel, which is Max Train develop, underscores between the words.

and, on Facebook, I think I’m just Mark Wingfield on Facebook. and there’s Max Conflict Management on Facebook as well, which is again, comes from the sub defense side. Okay. so thank you.

[00:49:41] Tony Winyard: Yeah. And to finish, Mark, is there a quote that you particularly like?

[00:49:46] Mark Wingfield: There’s loads of quotes I really like. it’s what I can’t be today.

I can be tomorrow. Okay.

[00:49:52] Tony Winyard: And why is that?

[00:49:54] Mark Wingfield: Because you can, you don’t have to stay where you are right now. It is back to choices we talked about earlier. If you want to, if you want to do something different, do it,

but you have to make a start.

[00:50:13] Tony Winyard: Mark, it’s been a pleasure, so thank you for your time. Thanks Tony. And I’ll speak

[00:50:18] Mark Wingfield: to you soon. Yeah, look forward to it. Thanks so much. Take care.

[00:50:22] Tony Winyard: Next week is episode 228. with Luke Watts, who is the founder and CEO of the cancer coach, who. are, revolutionizing cancer care and chronic illness management. So his groundbreaking initiative by combining evidence-based lifestyle medicine with a deep understanding of behavioural changes.

So Luke and his team have created an international network of qualified health coaches. Dedicated to supporting individuals with cancer. And his recent achievement, which is called the tree of life program. Developed in collaboration with experts in oncology and behavioral sciences. Empowers individuals by providing immediate and long lasting effects in cancer prevention, survivorship and caregiving support.

So that’s next week’s episode. with Luke Watts we’re going to hear a lot more about exactly what s the cancer coach, how it works more about the tree of life and how that’s going to help many people. And the educational aspect of it as well so that’s episode 228. with luke Watts that’s next week