Michael Kurkowski

226 – Michael Kurkowski

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Welcome to series four of my podcast, and it is now called The Art of Living, proactively Harnessing the Power of Your Choices. I’ve had a six month gap. We did four half years in a row, and had a six month gap. But now we are back with this new series. And as the name suggests, it is about living in a proactive way, especially around health rather than, a reactive way.

Got some great guests lined up over the next few weeks. So in this episode with Michael Kurkowski, he’s a strength mastery coach. We discussed the power of functional training and taking responsibility for one’s own progress in fitness. We discussed importance of autonomy in coaching and how self-limiting beliefs can hold people back from achieving their goals.

He offers tips for finding the right coach and staying accountable to one’s fitness journey, and you’ll hear more about building strength, developing intuition, and creating a most beautiful breakup with your coach. That’s this week’s edition, the first edition of The Art of Living proactively.

[00:01:13] Tony Winyard: Welcome to The Art of Living proactively. My guest today is Michael Kurkowski Kowski and we are back in New York. How are you, Michael?

[00:01:21] Michael Kurkowski: I am good, Tony, thanks for the invite. Appreciate it.

[00:01:24] Tony Winyard: So you are, you were just, we had a little conversation before we started and so most people, they think of New York. They think of New York City, but New York State is massive, isn’t it?

[00:01:33] Michael Kurkowski: It is massive. I, I have a joke where it’s like New York is, the city is kind of like the all star kid in high school who’s great looking. The quarterback of the football team and the rest of New York. We’re just like the sibling that just says that we’re. Related to that person. Um, so for people not na native to New York or know the area, I usually just say New York.

But yeah, there’s hours and hours of land in other areas above the city. And I’m in that central area. I live in Saratoga Springs, which is a beautiful spot. I absolutely love, uh, this space. But, uh, it’s very close to the Capitol, which is Albany. So that’s, you know, usually where we reside.

[00:02:09] Tony Winyard: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And you were saying you’ve done a bit of traveling, so you’ve been in a few other places around the state.

[00:02:16] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah, I grew, I grew up here, um, you know, just a suburb kind of close to where I am right now, and then early in my twenties, just seeing some different options and areas. I moved to Boston, lived there for a couple years, then ended up moving down to Florida. For a short while till eventually finding my roots back here.

Um, you know, with kind of at that time in your young twenties, you’re just kind of open to, you know, the wind wherever it blows you. Right? And then found some roots, uh, kind of got into the industry that I wanted to be in, which is the fitness industry. Started building a career there, relationship. A lot of things just started aligning and then all of a sudden it’s just Oh, okay.

Kind of found a, a little bit of a forever home. So that’s just kind of how the, how the travels work.

[00:03:01] Tony Winyard: That leads us nicely into, into fitness. So, so you are in the fitness industry. What is, what is it that got you so much into fitness? Can you remember what age it was when you really started thinking, yeah, I li I like this. What? What was it?

[00:03:13] Michael Kurkowski: So I was always, uh, enthralled with athletics growing up. Uh, I played baseball, basketball, but any type of competition I was naturally had some athletic ability. So I always liked that type of work. Um, and I always was, I. I was one of those kids that I was always really excited about practice and getting better.

Like the games were fun and the competition was fun, but I kind of really liked prac. I was like the weird kid that asked for homework, you know? It’s like the, I enjoyed practice because I knew that’s the time when you could really aim to get better. So I kind of had a little bit of a, you know, kind of a hitch there that I was like, yeah, I really like training.

I really like trying to improve.

[00:03:54] Tony Winyard: What age were you when you realized by, by doing that, it can make you better?

[00:03:59] Michael Kurkowski: Kind of, oh, probably around like maybe 10, 11 or so. But, but I didn’t

[00:04:04] Tony Winyard: very

[00:04:05] Michael Kurkowski: well to kind of, to caveat that I probably didn’t really recognize that until I was later in life of, that was kind of already the thing that I was really interested in, of knowing. But it seemed like, you know, seeing. Athletes and people that I admired and it was always great to see ’em in games, but I really loved to like read about what they did for training, how they practiced, like I was a baseball player, so I loved seeing how guys approached their batting practice, getting in the cage, working on their swing, like the little details of stuff of how, you know, that devil’s in the details.

It was always really fascinating to me. So, Um, you know, later when I wanted to play baseball at a high level, which was like 20 years old, that’s when I really more got into health and fitness. I got a trainer, didn’t really know what I was doing at all, and just a trainer at my local gym in Boston. Um, this girl, Nikki, she was awesome and she just beat the crap outta me for about a like a year.

But I got in really good shape and felt that difference of. What it was to not just like athletics, but also to be really strong, be really fit and be able to do it at a high level. And then when I moved back here, I, um, Kind of just got into working in restaurants, not really doing much. And a good friend of mine just started a career as a personal trainer and we were just chatting about it and he kind of invited me and, Hey, why don’t you come on in?

And he introduced me to functional movement, like more about like movement assessment, asymmetries in my body. So, Like a little bit of history. I, at 14 years old, I had a pin put into my hip. My femur slipped out of the growth play. We call it a slip hypothesis, and that took me off of my feet for about a year and took me out of, uh, organized sports for two years.

So kind of a pretty big identity shift early on. Like all my friends, everything that I knew was kind of about baseball season or basketball season. And that was kind of my core group of, of people. Now all of a sudden I was very solo for a bit in high school cuz all my friends kept playing sports and I couldn’t do it anymore.

So kind of had a little bit of that lost time and kind of regained it when I, you know, got back in and, and worked with my friend who showed me just how the body works, kind of a different approach to training than just aesthetics. It was more of like performance, more about balance, more longevity. And that just kind of sparked my interest to, to learn more about it and eventually got into the, into the business.

[00:06:28] Tony Winyard: So for those listening who maybe, maybe they haven’t heard the term functional movement before, can you tell people a bit about that?

[00:06:35] Michael Kurkowski: Sure. Um, it’s functional. It’s kind of one of those big buzzwords out there. Um, you know, what I look at is for as far as assessment is like, is there any. Asymmetries are compensations that naturally happen in the body that could cause us injury or limitations in movement. So what functional training, I would say to uh, best to say is it’s multi-joint.

It’s using the whole body and working it as one unit. So in a, you know, in contrast of it, more of like a traditional muscle split body building type session where you’re doing an arm day versus a chest day versus, you know, a leg day and you’re splitting up the body in different pieces. Functional training is more about getting the whole body working as one unit.

And it always, it related very quickly to me specifically for sports and performance and athletics because, you know, when you sprint down to go get a ball or you’re, you know, running track and field, you don’t think, oh, now use this leg now use this leg. It’s like, no, everything works as one cohesive.

Movement. So it kind, it was one of those introductions to me of not just the physical part of it, but also the neuromuscular side of it, the mental side of it, kind of getting more things, uh, closely related together. And it just made sense specifically for myself, but also the clientele, which I eventually worked with for a long period of time, which was more adults, 40, 50, 60, who were trying to really just improve overall, you know, general aspects of life, not a specific performance goal.

[00:08:02] Tony Winyard: So when, when prospective clients come to you, do they usually have, they know exactly what it is they they want help with? Or are they just asking you like, I’ve got these issues. What, what can I do? What, what is it? Or a bit of both.

[00:08:14] Michael Kurkowski: It’s a good, it’s a good question because honestly, I mean, over the years after 15 years of doing this, uh, you know, what I do now is different than what I did it before. I used to work more in like a specific space where I was doing in-person one-on-one training. Now mostly my clientele is online based work that we do.

So it’s a lot of programming work, but I think one of the things is, Most of us don’t exactly know what we want. We just know that where we’re at right now is not where we wanna be. So it could be very specific things. Like I worked with rehab, which is like, okay, we’re coming off of an A C L injury. All right?

That’s a pretty specific thing. We’re trying to get back into a return to play, but most people who come, they wanna lose a little bit of weight, they wanna feel better, you know, they want to get more energy, and it is one of those, after you say, well, tell me more about that, or why. Going to layer deeper.

It’s kind of, we don’t think about that a lot and in many ways because one, I think it’s very uncomfortable because when you start actually thinking about where you’re at and you’re not at the place that you want to be, it’s kind of an act of courage, of being like, yeah, like I’m not where I want to be right now.

Like that’s an uncomfortable feeling to. To have to admit. And it’s very easy to keep ourselves in a more comfortable space in our own mind. So after just speaking for a little bit, usually we get deeper into the reasons behind why you wanna get in better shape, what’s happening, why you don’t have the energy, what is causing that, you know, how’s your relationships, how’s your, how’s your career?

How’s your family? How’s your mood overall? You know, how’s your, you know, are you lapsing a lot throughout the day, like asking a few more questions? And I’ve. Taught this and worked with this in, uh, some workshops and people I’ve worked with in the coaching industry of just asking more questions, like taking really a good amount of time in that consultation as we talk about it, it really should just be a conversation about what’s life, about, like what is the highest level that you wanna, you know, achieve in life, and how do we get you there?

[00:10:14] Tony Winyard: But I mean, what you say there is. Coaching is, I think for many people when you first get into coaching, you’ve, you’ve built up all this knowledge, you’ve learned so many things, and you just wanna kind of like, not necessarily tell people, but you want to give people information and it’s, that’s not really coaching is it?

So it’s, it takes a while to adapt to actually, if I actually coach someone, I’m gonna get much better results.

[00:10:40] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah, it is. It’s uh, and knowledge is power. However, it’s the, you’re only as powerful as how much you can apply it or how you can help people apply it. You know? I think that’s the main thing is, you know, what a coach is. You know, I’ve met a million and a half amazing coaches. The best ones are the ones that get people to do things that often they don’t.

You know, wanna do themselves or they don’t feel motivated to do and finding a good way, you know, to do that. And that doesn’t come from the amount of knowledge that you have, it comes from the way that you can articulate and you can communicate with people. And it’s so funny cuz I think, you know, at beginning stages when we’re right at the beginning, like we don’t know anything.

So we naturally just start to listen a lot better. And you know, when I used to manage trainers when I had a club and I had about 12 trainers that worked with me, it was always funny that everybody gets into the coaching business, uh, business for, you know, maybe numerous reasons, but there’s always one main reason we wanna help people.

You know, we feel good about what fitness or health has done for us, and we wanna share that message with other people. And the best way to do that is just to listen to people, just have a conversation. And then it was always like that. Maybe like four or five, you know, months or so in, and you start to gain a little bit more knowledge.

Then all of a sudden you realize that same person who is gaining a lot of success starts talking 90% of the time to the people and they’re not getting people to, you know, come on their books and to work with them anymore. And it’s kind of a struggling thing when it’s like, no, you need to go back to just listening, you know, to people.

And I, I try and remind myself of that. Every time I’m talking with somebody new who’s a prospective client is, yeah, they don’t know that I’ve been doing this for 15 years. I’ve worked with thousands of people, nor should they care. It’s like, how can I help them? So you have to always go back to that beginner mindset of saying, tell me about yourself.

Like, you know, what are you looking to do? What can we do for you?

[00:12:38] Tony Winyard: So when, so when you meet new clients and you, you hear what the, their issues are. Do you normally go straight to functional training? Do they want to do to sort of traditional things like, you know, using weights and stuff in a gym or, or how does that, what normally, what happens there?

[00:12:58] Michael Kurkowski: No. So my approach now is a little bit different. Uh, and to be honest, uh, Tony, like I’m a, my main thing with as far as like a tool to use for strength is I’m a hard style kettlebell instructor. So I do a lot of kettlebell based work, uh, with training. So that’s the majority of the tool and the specific physical programs that we’re doing, but, The first thing that I talk about with new clients and what I ask them about is, why haven’t you see succeeded at this yet?

And I think that’s the big thing that we forget to talk about a lot, and we go right into the offensive game plans. You know, somebody says, I have a goal, I wanna lose 30 pounds. And we immediately, okay, we’re gonna put this program into place, we’re gonna do this nutrition plan, and we start to work this.

And then, The problem with that is most people actually do succeed for a period of time of that, but 90 to 95% of people lose all the progress they make over a one to three year period afterwards. So that was always something that really triggered with me as like we see all these like six week or 12 week or 24 week transformation type programs.

It’s like, okay, I wanna see the person who’s done the six year transformation, who started with it and is still continuously doing it over and over again afterwards. And what I realized over really the past two, three years, um, as I’ve had my own business and a lot of different thoughts about coaching and uh, research, is we’re always focusing on discovering so much about what we need to do, what we need to add in, where one of the best things we need to do is recover from the self limiting beliefs and the things that are, we’re holding in our own identity and eliminate those.

So that’s a big thing I talk about. My clients will tell you, like I say, recovery is for dis before discovery.

[00:14:44] Tony Winyard: Right.

[00:14:45] Michael Kurkowski: discovery is endless. We can discover every possible thing. You can add anything into your day to add into a workout plan, into a nutrition plan, into a mindset practice. But if you don’t change how you think about yourself and like where these self limb beliefs come from and not get over the failed attempts that we made in the past, then eventually you’re just gonna go back to that spot because you planted your flag in that identity.

Of where you have. So it’s tougher. It’s been a, it’s honestly been a challenge over a couple of years to change the approach of how I’ve talked to people and worked with them on, and it’s been some uncomfortable conversations to have with people to bring these out. But the results and the conversations now of people who get through that, I’m like, yeah, this is a different type of fulfillment that, uh, we’re making as a coach-client relationship.

[00:15:37] Tony Winyard: So, Are your clients tend to stay with you for quite a long time, or do you try to give them enough knowledge so they can go and do their own thing?

[00:15:47] Michael Kurkowski: Uh, my goal is, uh, you know, a good friend of mine, a coach, uh, Chris said a great line is like the goal of every great coach should create a most beautiful breakup when that time is needed. Um, so what I tell my clients is, I want to be the last coach that you need. If you want to stay on and you want to keep working with me afterwards, great.

I’m a fun guy to be around and we can keep excelling and we can keep building up. But I think I had this for a while, um, early on in my career, and I think a lot of people do is almost that scarcity mindset of you try and hold on to every client that you have and you, you wanna lock the back door so they can never leave and.

You know, I heard this, uh, this description of the term retention, right? Retention is not preventing people from leaving. It’s giving them a reason that they wanna stay. And I’ve tried really hard to work that over and over, so most of my clients I’ve worked with for at least a year. Some I’ve worked with for 8, 9, 13 years.

I think I’ve had a couple, some other ones are right in the early process of just getting started too, that like three month to 12 month process. I say like, to get everything you know, going together, you need to give yourself a good six to 12 months of like open heart, open focus to really develop, um, you know, the skills that you want to not only build the discipline up that we know you need to follow programs, but also delve into the realm of intuition, of creativity, of being.

Being okay with not having such a structured program at all times and still getting the things done that you need to, you know, that’s another phase of training that I talk about with my clients, um, after discovery is getting into that creation where I. You need to start thinking a little bit more for yourselves, where our conversation now is much more a give and take.

Well, what do you think you should do? You know what’s, what’s the approach? You know, a lot of clients when they get to that stage, I say, if you have a, if you have a question or if you have a struggle with something, I want you to come back with me with at least one solution that you thought of. And then I could be like, great, that might be a good idea.

Or I can provide a different insight and we can work with it more, you know, together. So it’s much more of a. It’s, it’s a much different relationship when you get to that mode. Um, and it’s more like we’re planning it together because, you know, my job as a coach, your job as a coach, anybody’s job as a coach is not just to tell somebody what to do.

Like they’ll do that for a short period of time cuz they’re desperate to make a change. But eventually, if they don’t start adopting it and understand that it’s their idea to do it, then they’re just gonna program hop from one thing to the next one thing to the next thing. This next guru is the next, is the guy that I need to follow now, or this book is gonna be the savior where all the knowledge that I need is right in there.

That’s not the reality. You know, we’ve all gone through those rabbit holes before, but that’s, that’s not what gets full fulfillment of really finding exactly what the best thing is for you.

[00:18:44] Tony Winyard: So if someone is looking, they, they need, they realize they, well maybe not realize, but they’re not having as much movement exercising their life as they probably are aware that it would be good to increase it somehow. And they’ve been going down the gym and they just can’t motivate themselves to, to do the things they want to do, and then they decide and they start thinking maybe a personal trainer will be a good idea.

So what, what would you say to help them? What should, what should they be looking for when, in terms of looking for personal trainer and what all also should they maybe be trying to avoid as well?

[00:19:22] Michael Kurkowski: Hmm, that’s a good question. First question I would ask with the person who’s unmotivated, they can’t do it themselves, is, I would say, what happens if you don’t change anything?

[00:19:31] Tony Winyard: Hmm.

[00:19:33] Michael Kurkowski: Oftentimes, we always are thinking of the goals that we want to achieve ahead of time, and so we’re seeking the pleasure or where we want to go.

Oftentimes, a bigger motivator is to prevent where you are or where you don’t want to be, and if you recognize that where you are right now and what you’re doing is not working, Oftentimes that’s a much stronger motivator to get yourself out of bed and do the things that you want to do, uh, from there.

So if you’re looking for a coach and a trainer, you know, one thing I would do is, you know, I really just look for someone who you feel a genuine connection with, who feels honest, who says, I don’t know to many things, because none of us know everything. You know, if you work with somebody who’s brand new, I have no idea how you’re gonna respond to training.

Like, I have some, some thoughts of some things we can do and implement to start getting some things going. And you’ll probably see some, you know, some relief and some and some good stuff going on. But I have no idea after a week or two how life is gonna happen for you, how things are gonna respond. So if someone comes out and says like, I have a guaranteed.

Like 12 week program or guaranteed six month program and stuff like that. I really, I start to smell a little BS on that because even if they get you to that mark in that timeframe, they probably are doing it in a way that’s trying to get to some shortcuts that are not sustainable for the long term.

And then you’ll eventually be back down the line where you’re right, where you’re, you don’t want to be. And that’s, it’s one of the most. Tough things to talk about with people who have continuously tried and then failed at making progress in the things that they really do want to make improvement on.

You know, I think that’s something specifically in the US culture that. We think everybody’s lazy. You know, we think people, they just don’t want to do it. They’re just not motivated. I don’t buy it. I think everybody wants to improve themselves in some ways. It’s either they don’t have the knowledge, they don’t have the competence to understand it, or they’re really.

Like their self-efficacy is so low that they don’t believe that they can actually do it because everything they’ve tried before has failed. You know, it’s like trying to tell someone who wants to, you know, get married and settle down in a relationship, but every person that they’ve been with before that is cheated on them.

It’s like, how are you gonna tell that person to have faith that the next relationship is gonna be good? They’ve had a track record where that’s telling them it’s not the case.

[00:22:08] Tony Winyard: mm.

[00:22:09] Michael Kurkowski: It’s the same thing with training, you know, so one of the things I talk about a lot with people at the beginning is, what have you done in the past?

Like, I want to know what you’ve done because I don’t wanna just say this. Try the same thing that you’ve done before and just all of a sudden now we’re down the same route. And that’s a very comfortable thing that people do, right? Is we go back to what’s familiar. That’s when people say, oh, I’m gonna go back to that routine that I did before.

Cuz I was really successful at that. It’s like, well, how are you successful? You’re not doing it now. It’s like, yeah, but I lost a few pounds when I did that before. I’m like, yeah, but you gained it right back. Maybe it’s the approach that needs to be changed. So it’s all these things I think that we get in with, uh, these different messages of, uh, coming in.

But I think that’s a big, uh, point Tony of. Going to somebody who is not afraid to say, I don’t know, but I’m gonna find out and I’m gonna work with you on this. And I love what I do, and I’m passionate about helping people, and I’m gonna be there every step of the way to figure this out with you.

[00:23:06] Tony Winyard: And I guess related to that would be the people who are going to a gym regularly and they are doing regular workouts, be it sort of group classes or they’re doing their own stuff on the, in a weight room or whatever it might be. They’re not getting the results they want, but they’ve never considered seeing a personal trainer because for whatever reason now I don’t, I don’t need a personal trainer.

I know what to do or, or whatever the case may be. What, what would you say is, what difference could a personal trainer make to someone?

[00:23:39] Michael Kurkowski: Everyone needs coaches, you know, it’s like more so just to get out of your own head, you know? I think we are so good at. Uh, rationalizing what we think is a good idea, but also playing devil’s advocate with it just to get out of your own mindset. You know, I’ve been doing this a long time. I have two coaches, you know, I have my coach Tyler, who works with me with nutrition and our business and mindset.

And then I also have, uh, my coach Brett, who’s been my strength coach forever. Now, I mean, I could program out my own training. I could, you know, write out my own nutrition plan, all the things that I wanna do and I wanna have in my life. I have other coaches that I work with too. Um, you know, Brian and Carrie, they’re amazing people.

But just to get outta my own head, because I’ve got things that I wanna work on. I’m building a business. I have my own clients that I’m working with, where if I’m accountable, To another person where they’re like, no, they’re expecting me to do this. I’m not gonna rationalize with them. I know what they expect from me, and we can very easily fog up what we expect from ourselves, where it’d be like, oh, like, well, I’ll, I’ll do that again.

Like, because. very, it’s a hard thing to be 100% self accountable to somebody and everybody, I think that probably is, you’re accountable to someone. You know, it’s like if you run everything yourself, but you have a family, I mean, you’re accountable to your family. You know, if you don’t do what you need to do, you can’t provide, I.

For them. And then there’s just gonna be consequences, you know? So everybody’s accountable in some ways, and I think the best thing that I can coach do, specifically, if you’re in that target, like you’ve been doing stuff, like you’ve been working out, you’ve built the discipline. So you’re doing a lot of good things, but you’re still not getting there.

It might not be that you’re doing something wrong. It might just be that you’ve leveled up, like you’ve gone to a next level where you need to change your approach. You know, maybe you need to try something different. Maybe you need more endurance based work or a little bit different strength plan. Like I’ve known people who I’ve gone on who have been great endurance athletes, and just putting ’em on a little bit of like a.

Kind of like a power lifting type program for a little bit, just to change the, you know, just what’s going on in your body. The response, you know, just what you’re putting it through sometimes just breaks you out of that, you know, that rut and just puts you into that, that zone again. So that’s what I’d say, uh, what the best thing a coach can do is just give you a little bit different structure where you just can go in and be a student.

[00:26:09] Tony Winyard: All.

[00:26:09] Michael Kurkowski: It’s like, I think a lot of people, we get to a point where we’ve been doing something so long, we think that we know everything, but you know, it’s, it’s an old cliche, right? Like a doctor who treats himself has an idiot for a client or for a patient, right? It’s, it’s kind of the same thing.

[00:26:25] Tony Winyard: Earlier on in the, in the episode you talked about how, if I remember right, I think you said you’re working with a lot of people maybe in forties, fifties, sixties, and so on. And, and as we get older, our, the way that we train needs to change because we have, you know, as we get older, strength becomes more important and so on.

So, I mean, thi this podcast, the main theme of it is a beard about being proactive with your own health. So for people who. Who maybe are in those older age groups, or fifties, sixties, and so on, from a proactive point of view, what, what would you say that they, if they haven’t realized that they do need to start thinking more about, say, strength, for example, what, what things would you say someone who’s maybe just got into their fifties that they may maybe need to start thinking about, or maybe someone who’s in their late fifties and they’re approaching their sixties.

What sort of things do people need to think about as they get older?

[00:27:18] Michael Kurkowski: Strength is huge. You know, maintaining strength, maintaining a little bit of hypertrophy and muscle, you know, size is huge. Um, and that’s just from. I mean, the statistics of falling, of, you know, of breaking bones, just the brittleness that happens from there. I mean, it’s one of the, it’s one of the, the tougher things.

So getting into a strength training plan right away, get a co if you’ve never done it before. I mean, it’s just kind of common sense. Just go hire a coach. You know, get somebody that, you know, just get something in whatever you probably do at that moment. Like is probably gonna benefit you. You know? I think that’s one of the things we always argue about.

What’s the best way? All the times, like if you’re doing nothing, the best way is whatever you start doing, in many ways, you know, I have some bias in certain different ways. I think a hard style approach, like getting a kettlebell and like learning a few different movements, learning how to hinge your hips properly, learning how to.

Squat down, learning how to overhead press. So you have thoracic mobility and knowing how to control weight. Like I don’t think you need to do a lot of different things. You just need to do a few things very well. But the best thing that I think people do and still is underrated, um, that peop that everybody should do is just go for walks.

Just move more. If you just, you know, you walk, I mean the 10,000, you know, step, I mean, it’s a good bar, you know, biomarker, you know, to have, I think it’s, it a little, is a little bit subjective. You could just start moving more. If you go for a 30 minute walk, you know, every day, you know, 40 minute walk, and then you strength train a few days a week going from nothing. You’re gonna see night and day differences. After a few months of doing that, then after that, it’s like, okay, like what’s the next thing? Like the fir Okay, now you’ve built a discipline. We’ve gotta, we’ve got like a, a workout schedule that we’re doing. Okay. Now, maybe we can add some things. We can build some things in.

But I think one of the hardest things to do is just get going because we’re like, what should I do? Should I do this? Should I do a class? Should I get a coach? Should I do this? Just pick one and kind of go and work and. I found, I love working with the population of like 40, 50, 60, because in many ways they’ve gone through having teachers, mentors, coaches, they know that you get to a point where you’re like, okay, I don’t know how to do this anymore.

Like, I really don’t know what I’m, do I need someone to help me and to hire me. And if you can just let the ego go a little bit and just, you know, go in, you’ll probably find, you know, some amazing results pretty quickly.

[00:29:45] Tony Winyard: so you were talking about strength there and the various sort of approaches. And, and you, and you use the word like people and person and, and I think men will definitely sort of react to that and think, yeah, yeah, that’s something I, I should be doing. But many women have this, well say many. I’m, I’m generalizing.

Some women have this thing about sort of big muscles, whatever, and that really puts them off. But it, but strength is just as important for women as it is for men though, isn’t it?

[00:30:15] Michael Kurkowski: Oh, 100%. Yeah, it is. I mean, everybody has their own personal definition of it, right? Of what is strength, and if you think strength is a picture of Arnold, you know, when he won, you know, Mr. Olympia. Okay then if you don’t wanna. Look that way. That’s, you know, that’s it. You know, I’ve, and I used to approach this in a different way, and I think it’s, uh, and I, and I approach this, I think poorly because I’d be like, you know, we know the science behind it.

Unless you’re eating a massive amount of calories, probably injecting quite a bit of some extracurricular, uh, medicines, steroids into you, you’re not gonna get this very. Big hulking, bulk, you know, favorite. It takes a long time. I, I

laugh

[00:30:56] Tony Winyard: by, doesn’t come by

[00:30:58] Michael Kurkowski: exactly. Like I, I laugh with people so much cuz I’m, I would classify myself as a hard gainer, you know, I’m a leaner guy.

I’m 165 pounds and it took me like two years to put on five pounds of muscle in my late thirties, you know, like, so it’s almost like, You know, as women think we’re gonna pick up, some women think we’re gonna pick up like one set of weights and you’re gonna look like the Hulk. Like, I’ve been trying this for two years to put on five pounds.

But it’s everybody’s perspective. It’s everybody’s approach and you have to meet them where you’re at. And it’s like absolutely, totally understand it. It’s like, but my definition that I say with strength is like, it’s what you can rely on when you’re tested.

[00:31:37] Tony Winyard: Right.

[00:31:38] Michael Kurkowski: So I would go into be like, okay, like what happens at these in these situations?

Like why do you feel like you need to get more exercise? Why do you feel like you need to drop weight? I know you’re afraid that you don’t want to get bulking, so well, tell me more about that. Sometimes like, that’s the greatest question I think as coaches that we can just ask is just tell me more about that.

Just open up a little bit more. Most people are gonna tell you the answer, like it might not be right on the tip of their tongue, but it’s gonna come out after a bit and just be like, well, if someone’s telling me that, you know, if a woman says, I don’t want to feel bulky, okay. She wants to stay feminine looking, her appearance is very, Important to her.

How she presents herself in the world is a big thing. What’s the best thing that you can do to present yourself in the in the world? How you want self-confidence. Okay. How’s your confidence? Why don’t you feel confident in this? You know, one of the best things to do about strength training is actually builds up your confidence.

It helps your posture, your energy’s up. You feel more cognitively clear. Those are things you’re probably gonna feel really good. Then you’re gonna wanna come into the world in a little different way. So sometimes it’s just finding tho that little different approach behind it. Don’t dismiss it, you know, don’t dismiss anything.

You know from there, I think, because then you’re just putting people on the defensive. And what’s the one thing I think that people are afraid to go into a gym or ask help from somebody. We don’t wanna feel stupid. You know, and it’s like if you, and that’s the thing that most people come, I used to, you know, uh, joke about this Tony with my staff is when I worked at a club, you could just naturally know who was like looking at the club or seeking information just by how they walked in the door.

You know, it’s kind of like sometimes a shuffling of the feed. It’s like this hesitation that’s in, it’s all in body language, you know, like 90% of what we say is in our body language and. I would see people who would come in with that apprehension. Then they would start working with somebody, or they’d get into a routine and a couple months down the line I would see them swipe their tag in and they’d have to walk by my office and you’d see the way that they walk was different.

Like their posture’s different, like everything about it. They walked in like, I belong here now. Like, I’m doing good. And it would always make a, I would make it a point to, uh, bring that up to ’em. You know? I would just kind of p Hey, do you know, you walk different than when you came in here? You know? And it was usually like, they would cra it was, you know, they would laugh for a bit and stuff like that.

It’s like, what? What are you talking about? It’s like, like your confidence of how you walked in here from the first day to how you walk in now is like night and day. Like that is freaking so awesome. And oftentimes they’re like, well, you know, I, I have, I’ve been working really hard and I’ve been feeling really good.

And just acknowledging that is huge. And I, that’s something that we need such little encouragement as people to do the things that we’re trying really hard to do. And if somebody just notices it and you just pull it out, not a, you know, not a, like a, a fake type thing of stuff, like, oh my God, you look so good.

But it’s just like, Hey, you know, you walk differently. Like, you know, your confidence is different.

[00:34:39] Tony Winyard: And, and what you’ve just said, you’re helping, you’re helping them celebrate the, a success they’ve had. And we, I mean, more so in England than in America. I mean, the English, we’re terrible at celebrating our own successes, like acknowledging that we’ve done. It’s just, it is kind of stoic. Uh, yeah. Okay. And just moving on, the next thing, I think Americans are a little bit better about celebrating and high fiving yourself or whatever.

I mean, I dunno, what, what is your, what’s your experience with that?

[00:35:07] Michael Kurkowski: I do, I have some, I have some friends from the UK that is, it’s very kind of stoic. We don’t, you know, we kind of like you, do you like, we don’t really celebrate out with us. The culture is very different. We celebrate, you know, success, uh, very well here. But I think often though it can be this almost fake, narrow, like if you know that you’re not working hard or you’re not doing something, somebody comes up and they say, Something like that, you can, I mean, you can tell very quickly.

It’s like they’re putting on an act. Maybe they’re just trying to make you feel good. Maybe it’s not something malice, but it’s, uh, they’re trying to make you feel good. But when somebody is really working hard at something and they’re putting some effort in, and then. You see ’em and you don’t make like a big deal out of it, but you just be like, Hey, you know, I see what you’re doing.

You know, I see that, you know, that’s one of the reasons that I got into the fitness industry, you know, when I was kind of figuring out what I wanted to do and I was working with my, uh, good friend and he introduced me to the gym and I was, you know, feeling great at the time, I was working at a restaurant, like a big corporate type chain restaurant, and it was fun.

Like I made some good money, like as a young 20 year old, but. Uh, the conversations in restaurants can be very negative. Like everybody’s in a bad mood. Um, you know, it’s like they’re complaining about tables, like everybody’s just, it’s misery, loves company type stuff. And what I realized is I would go to the gym and I was working with my friend, and I’d stay around and the environment was very positive.

Like I started to see very similar people and they would come up and be like, Hey, like you’re. Like, you’re kicking butt, man. Like, I see your workouts, like you’re working really hard. And then I see somebody else, and they would do that. And it’s like, everybody’s kind of, it’s a little support group. It’s a positive environment, it’s a positive energy.

And I was like, wow. Like I just wanna spend more time here. Like this is a, this feels good. Then I would go to work and all of a sudden it’s just a, it’s just a switch. And I’m like, everything I hear is negative. And what I realized, it was like, oh crap. Like, The conversations haven’t changed at all. I’m just noticing it now because I got out of this environment for part of the day and I’m seeing that there’s a different way that you can live and that you can approach this, and now all of a sudden the negativity started to ring really loud when I was going into the restaurant and it made me realize like how quickly we can.

Get comfortable and almost numb to the environment. We are. You know, it’s kind of like with, with asymmetries and, and movement, like in, like, you’re a runner, like with your gate, like you can just get so comfortable in your gate of running, even though you, you know, it’s not ideal. It’s not optimal until someone else kind of points it out or you work on it and then you change it and then you’re like, oh my God.

Like, I didn’t know, I, I didn’t know I could feel this good. Like, I didn’t know I was doing something different. So that’s kind of one of the things that. Is so powerful is we can get so easily into just a comfortable, very kind of normalized environment where we don’t want to challenge ourselves. But if you make it a positive experience, then all of a sudden people start to change little by little more on their own.

When you just give them that outlet and you kind of see that,

[00:38:19] Tony Winyard: It’s all about awareness, isn’t it? Just, you know, trying to bring awareness to people about this particular

[00:38:25] Michael Kurkowski: skill, right? Self-awareness.

[00:38:27] Tony Winyard: Yeah. What about a situation where, well, I wonder if this, if you ever do come across people who, who wouldn’t dream of going to a gym and they’re, they’re not doing any exercise.

Maybe they’re getting very little movement. They’re not walking much, they’re not necessarily obese, but they’re just. They haven’t realized the importance of, of sort of exercising, moving more as you get older. Do you ever c come across people like that?

[00:38:55] Michael Kurkowski: I do, it’s, uh, it’s a difficult conversation for me to have with some people. You know, if you’re, if you’re in that space, if you don’t want to go to a gym, if you’ve never exercised before, but you wanna make changes like, you know, that you wanna feel better and stuff. Okay. That’s a conversation to have if you’re just kind of oblivious to it and stuff like that.

I mean, you can’t help everybody, you know, in the world. I wish we could, but I like personally just can’t be around. I just kind of remove myself from spaces like that. You know, I’ve been at some gatherings and functions where people are kind of talking that way, and I just kind of just subtly, you know, start walking to the side a little bit.

I just don’t wanna be in environments like that. I like talking with people who are trying to improve themselves, who are trying to. Think about why they do things. You know, see ’em at how I can get better, celebrating the good things, but how can I make these approaches? And

[00:39:52] Tony Winyard: Hmm.

[00:39:52] Michael Kurkowski: what, you know, just with some of those people, if they do wanna make changes, but they’re really apprehensive, they don’t wanna step in the gym and stuff like that.

And then sometimes it’s just asking the question, okay, well, why, like, what happened at a gym? Like, you know, sometimes it’s just the, it’s just what their perspective is, of what it is. When it’s like, okay, that’s fine. Like, all right. Have you ever tried working out from home? Like, okay, oh, I don’t know what to do.

Okay. Do you think you can learn it? I mean, Every, somebody’s learned it before, you know, it’s like everybody starts from scratch, you know, maybe you can learn it. Do you wanna learn it? Okay, where’s the apprehension? So kind of start meeting ’em where they’re at. And the thing that I found of working with people is the, like, I try not to leave any conversation with the client.

If we have like a goal or we have like, all right, this is what we’re aiming at for the next week. Unless it’s a nine outta 10 or a 10 out 10, where they know that they can do it. Like, okay, we need to change the goal. We need to shift it up. Because the reason behind it is I think we all think we know what we should be doing.

Like I see this person, they’re doing this. Oh, I should be doing that. But if it’s such a quantum leap of what you’re doing now to what that is, it’s very easy just to be like, I can’t do that. And then we just start to build this belief system and we start to build this identity that I’m not someone who follows through on their word. And I think that’s one of the most important things that we don’t talk about as coaches. If we just focus on the physical and we don’t talk about the mental, where that person who has never succeeded in this before, maybe has tried a few times and, and, uh, failed. They good majority of the people have a thought in their head that I’m not someone who can succeed at this.

And you can ignore that. Like you cannot bypass that. So you need to rebuild that from scratch. Like you need to be, you need to develop into a person that says, when I do something or when I say I’m going to do something, I’m gonna get it done.

[00:41:58] Tony Winyard: Yeah.

[00:41:58] Michael Kurkowski: that is a skill that if, if we can teach that, if I can teach that to somebody, then.

Everything else, like whatever workout plan it is, or nutrition or mindset or goal that they have for their business or their family. It’s a beautiful conversation because I know I’m talking to somebody who is really engaged in what they’re doing and they trust their word. like, and if you don’t trust your word then and it’s, you know, it sucks because if you haven’t done it before, like yeah, the first time you do something like that, it might be such a small incremental step that there’s no glory in it at all.

It’s not gonna feel very good, but that is the step to move forward. So that person, yeah. Can you work out once this week? You know, can you, okay, great. Can you do that again? Can we go to two? Oh, I can’t do two. Okay. Stay with one. Did you do one? Okay. Can we do two? Okay, can you go through, I mean, so on and so forth.

It’s, I mean, incremental steps. We talk about it all the time, but it really is, that’s the approach, you know, to do because, not because that’s the way physically to get anywhere. It’s because you mentally are always accomplishing the goal that you set for yourself week in and week out, and that is freaking so amazing when somebody does that.

That’s like, I get chills when I talk to clients who are on that path in doing that because I see what can happen afterwards. It’s amazing.

[00:43:21] Tony Winyard: and, and I also, as you were saying that it made me wonder, I won. I wonder if some people who dread going to a gym for whatever reason, if they’ve maybe not considered the possibility that they could have a personal trainer at their house or in a park or whatever it may be, it doesn’t necessarily have to involve going to a gym.

[00:43:40] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that’s being, like you said, it’s taking a proactive measure of doing it. It’s like, see, as there a coach, I mean we, we live in the world of Google, right? I mean, you can find anything. There’s somebody out there that will do it. There’s a lot of. Coaches, I know specifically in the last few years with the pandemic shifted a lot.

They do a lot more in-person, where I do some in-home work of people local, just to kind of get a gathering of, I don’t do much cuz I do mostly online. But there’s always a, there’s always an avenue, there’s always a path, you know, to do it. Um, I think that’s it, but you know, the big thing is just you gotta take that leap of faith, you know, sometimes and do it.

[00:44:20] Tony Winyard: Well, you just said about working online, so when you’re working online with people, is that as a PT or, or something different?

[00:44:27] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah, I mean, I’m a, I’m a coach, you know, I’m still a strength coach. I’m a strength mastery coach. So, uh, we do a lot of, I do physical training programs, we do nutrition programs. I do mindset practices of them. Um, but again, like the, the main shift that I’ve made from, uh, What I used to do, which was the in-person work to what I do now is more so the conversation and how we’re approaching it.

You know, I do it the way that I do because I don’t wanna enable anybody. Um, I want them to take responsibility to do it on themselves. And then we are coming together to adjust to, you know, figure out the next steps of the plan and to always know where we’re going. In it. But, you know, I saw that Tony when we were in Covid, and this was a story I’ve told, uh, a bunch of different times on podcasts.

But, you know, we had 150 people in our studio and they were doing amazing. And we were tripling our space, like me and, uh, the team I was with, with, with a great guy, one of my good friends who had a studio and we were flying high. And a week before the lockdowns we signed an agreement to triple our space.

You know, we were expanding, we were going out. Yeah. And, uh, But you know, we were kind of so at such an optimistic, you know, moment at that time cuz everything was going so well. We got all of our classes, all of our training programs, we put ’em online, we gave everybody a kettlebell they could have at home.

They could still do everything that they were doing at home. But slowly but surely people started to slide off. They weren’t staying as consistent, they were losing their progress. And after a lot of conversations with some people, one of the main reasons people were saying is, They don’t feel comfortable doing it on their own.

They feel like they’re doing it wrong, like they don’t think that they’re doing it right. And I kind of realize, I’m like, oh, like as much as I was helping people, like when you were in front of me and I was telling you exactly what to do with every movement, everything, yeah, you were doing fine. But once I was removed from the equation and something crazy happened like a covid pandemic, didn’t know how to be self-sufficient, so we weren’t teaching them how to be autonomous with this.

And it’s like, and like that’s where I was like, oh, I’m like, we, I wanna shift my approach of how I need to do this. Like, we need to do this in a different way. That’s when I started to study more intuitive training, more of the creative side of stuff. Not just the order and the structure, but also how to be more open, more and flow, those types of things.

And that’s why I, I coach the way that I coach now because I want to give the tools that they need. But they’re also responsible for getting it done. And I know that it’s gonna have some ugly weeks, like where it’s gonna be off, and it’s like, okay, I totally get it. Like, yeah, I could go and drill sergeant down and tell you exactly what you need to do every step of the way.

But yeah, you’re, again, you’re in the short term, like you’re trying to grab it in the short term progress, and I’m sorry, I don’t, I don’t want to do that anymore. I think that’s one of the big things with the fitness industry that. Is the biggest problem. Yeah. We’re signing people up, everybody’s coming to the gyms, but people are still not healthy.

They’re losing progress. We’re missing something big. I think the autonomy of it is one of the big, you know, factors to do so. That’s why I changed my approach.

[00:47:48] Tony Winyard: Time is, is flying here, Michael. So we, as we get towards the end of the episode, uh, something I, a question I, I ask everyone, and I love some of the answers I get to this question, is what, is there a book that’s moved you for any reason, that’s just, just kind of blown your mind? Is there anything that comes to mind?

[00:48:05] Michael Kurkowski: So I’m a book nerd, so there’s like 30 that came in through my head. Um, the one I will say, which made the biggest impact on me, um, in many different ways, is Mastery by Robert Green.

Um, if, uh, if anybody knows Robert Green, he, he was known really for the 48 Laws of Power. That’s like the main book that was popularized.

His book Mastery was so impactful to me because he broke down what it actually takes to master a skill. You know, where you have your three phases, the apprenticeship phase, the creative active, and then the mastery. Um, it was along the lines of kind of a lot of the story I just told you where my head was when I first read this book.

[00:48:46] Tony Winyard: And, uh, how old were you when you first read it?

[00:48:49] Michael Kurkowski: Uh, this was three years ago, so 35.

[00:48:53] Tony Winyard: Okay.

[00:48:54] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah. Um, so. You know, the apprenticeship phase of learning the skills and kind of learning from the master, acquiring all these things. But then eventually you get to the second phase where you need to blaze your own path. You need to create yourself. You can’t just follow the master anymore.

You need to go and expand on knowledge you have. That just triggered so much into coaching. Of where I was at, that, that triggered, and I’m, I’m reading Robert Green’s book right now, the Laws of Human Nature. He’s my favorite author. He is absolutely amazing. From there. Um, early on though, I’ll, I’ll throw one more out there.

Uh, early on when I was about 20 years old, which was the biggest book that impacted me, was The Way of a Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman.

[00:49:37] Tony Winyard: Okay.

[00:49:37] Michael Kurkowski: And, uh, that book, it’s a, it’s a fictional setting based on some true events, but that was the first book that. And I guess the spiritual journey of, uh, Me just finding my path with God and like trying to understand like something bigger than myself.

That was one of the first ones that really impacted me because it had things that I was like that I understood. You know, Dan is the main character as a gymnast. He’s an athlete. He’s trying to get maximum performance. That resonated with me very easy. And then he meets the teacher, Socrates, who teaches him more about the way of life and being in the present moment.

You know, where are you here? You know? What time is it now? That was the one that. Has probably impacted me the most, uh, in the longest span of my life.

[00:50:24] Tony Winyard: so if people wanna find out more about you, maybe they wanna work with you, where, where would they go?

[00:50:29] Michael Kurkowski: Uh, you can go to my website, which is my strength connection.com, uh, on there. So if you go there, uh, I have a free ebook that I like to promote out to, um, any shows that I’m on, which is called The One Day Strength Challenge. This is about how to incorporate. An intuitive approach into your training. So if you’re one of those people that has been doing a lot of stuff for a while, you’ve built that up and now you kind of hit that little bit of a plateau, this is a great book for you, uh, to go grab.

So you can just go in there, um, just put in your email. I send it right over to you, or you could check me out on Instagram. It’s mike underscore strength underscore connection. Uh, or hit me up on Facebook, Michael Kurkowski.

[00:51:10] Tony Winyard: And I’m presuming as you are working online, doesn’t matter what country someone in, they can, they can work with you.

[00:51:15] Michael Kurkowski: No, I work with everybody. I work with a limited number of people, um, at a time just from my own bandwidth of, uh, working with, with some other things that I’m, uh, aiming for. But yeah, anybody who is interested in, you know, talking about intuition, kind of hit this plateau, I’ll be more than happy to, to take time and, and speak with you.

[00:51:34] Tony Winyard: Cool. Well, to finish, Mike, is there, do you have a quote that you like?

[00:51:41] Michael Kurkowski: Yes. Uh, my, my quote that I love is from Beethoven. Uh, it’s, uh, do not just practice your art but force your way into its secrets for it and knowledge will raise men to the divine.

[00:51:54] Tony Winyard: Cool. And why? Well, let’s first, when did you first come across that?

[00:51:59] Michael Kurkowski: So that was, uh, after, that was in 2000 and. I believe I heard this. So do you know the, you know the band, uh, the piano guys?

[00:52:10] Tony Winyard: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:11] Michael Kurkowski: Yeah. So they put that quote at the beginning of like one of their videos I was listening to on it. And. beginning part of it, do not just practice your art, but force your way into its secrets was, uh, that hit me just back so much because that, that is mastery.

You know, and that is a word that is, is really powerful to me. And I think. It’s something that I, I hope to spread more in anybody that I talk to because, you know, we’re all playing the game of life here. You know, life is a skill, just like anything. And if you can master that skill, you know, then when tests come up and challenges come up, then you can do it.

And so take your, you know, take your life, take your practice. Don’t just go through the motions, but figure out. Like the details behind it, you know, all the great ones that we follow and everything that we see from the, the great people. They at one point blazed their own path. They went past all the knowledge that they had to find new avenues, opened up new doors, and I think everybody’s capable of doing that.

So that quote just, I, I love that I resonate, uh, with that so much.

[00:53:18] Tony Winyard: Nice. It’s a great, great quote. I don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. So, um, yeah, that will be in the show notes for anyone who, who didn’t catch it, it’ll definitely be in the show notes. So Michael, it’s been an absolute pleasure. So thank you very much and, uh, and best of luck to for the future.

[00:53:32] Michael Kurkowski: Thank you, brother. Appreciate it

in next week. Edition of the art of living proactively podcast. My guest is mark Wingfield and from a varied international business career, mark established the max training and development lab in 2006. He’s a highly experienced trainer who now focuses on training new practitioners. As one of the few licensed international Havening techniques. So we’re going to find out a lot more about what is Havening. It’s used in self-defense it’s useful for reducing stress. For reducing psychological obstacles. So Mark’s going to tell us a lot more about Haven. so that’s in next week’s episode, episode 227. With mark Wingfield I

hope you enjoyed this week’s show. Um, this is the new format and I forgot to mention at the start. This is the first episode, which as well as being in audio, which it has been for the last five years now is on video as well. There’s a link in the show notes. So a YouTube link. So you can now actually see me talking with the guests. So every episode from now on will be on both video and audio. Hope you have a great week. See you next week. On this episode of The Art of Living Proactively (Harnessing the Power of Your Choices), host Tony Winyard is joined by Michael Kurkowski, a strength mastery coach, to discuss the power of functional training and taking responsibility for one’s own progress in fitness. The duo discuss the importance of autonomy in coaching and how self-limiting beliefs can hold people back from achieving their goals. They also offer tips for finding the right coach and staying accountable to one’s fitness journey. Listen to learn more about building strength, developing intuition, and creating a "most beautiful breakup" with your coach

[00:55:30] Michael Kurkowski: Longevity and Fitness: Unleashing the Power of Functional Training with Michael Kurkowski